IB vs A levels

[doraismissing]

DD1 thinking of moving schools for 6th form (she's going into year 11 next month) and one of the school's she has put on her short list offers IB as well as A levels. She is hard working and bright but her strengths lie in the sciences rather than English and languages.

Can anyone explain to me how the IB SL papers compare to the old AS levels? Are they similar, how big a step up it is from GCSE? She is keen to keep a language going but wouldn't want to do a whole A level (she is predicted As in both English and French but that will take some hard work). She also likes the ability to keep her options that IB will allow.

Any advice or insight gratefully received.

Thanks.

I don't think there's a massive step up from GSCE (I used to teach DP SL Maths) BUT 6 subjects, plus EE, TOK and CAS, what other subjects she chooses and which ones at SL/HL, it's more a question of commitment and ability under pressure.. Does she have an idea on what other subjects/level she will choose?

my son is taking the IB diploma and is in his second year. His HL subjects are chemistry, maths and biology and SL English, Geography and German.
He took German B early (German for non-natives, taking two A languages will give you a bilingual diploma) and his experience is as follows:
paper 1 - reading comprehension - pretty straightforward
paper 2 - written paper - you have to be able to use many different formats - blog, formal letter, newspaper article, essay, email - and not only the relevant vocab, but also correct tone and must be audience appropriate. This can be quite a big step up from gcse.
course work (internal assessment) - this can also be quite tricky as you need three different sources (eg one blog, one newspaper article, flyer, internet source) which have a common theme. You then write your own piece which must be in a different format from the other three but which draws on the themes raised. My ds chose immigration and wrote a speech to his year group. It can be quite tricky as you need to be able to understand newspaper articles - quite a step up from gcse if you are looking at the equivalent of the telegraph.
oral - pretty straightforward
Hope the above is useful.
As orange says - you do need to be well organised for the IB and also work well under pressure, but imo it's an excellent preparation for university.

I'll be honest, I really couldn't understand how anyone, apart from all rounders, could find the IB appealing. My DDs school offer it, in fact are one of the leading schools for IB, they get some amazing results.
I went to a presentation about IB vs Alevels and was really impressed.

You have to do a language, but can start a completely new one! This school offers Italian and Mandarin! You don't have to get to A level standard. If you aren't very science or maths focussed their are courses such as Mathmatical studies, that take GCSE level maths skills and apply it to a wider range of problem solving. I think Environmental studies counts as a science. I came away thinking actually this is really good and would have liked to have had a go myself!

My DD has decided to do Maths, Biology, Chemistry and Politics ALevel despite all this!

Esme - DH and I had the same opinion as you (both took A levels over 30 years ago) and we have also been impressed with the IB, especially the extended essay and how to reference articles - didn't learn that until university!
the workload is heavy, especially with CAS commitments, and have been impressed with how well ds has managed his time.

Thanks

Totally outing myself but choices along the lines of (but this can/will change as she is not sure what she wants to do when she grows up - who does!)

IB HL maths, physics and DT
IB SL English, French, biology or economics

A levels maths, further maths, physics,DT

CAS shouldn't be too much of a problem as plays a sport at a v high level

I like the idea of the extended essay as she will need these skills whatever she chooses to do

Sorry posted too soon

She can also choose to do a new language from scratch. Maybe an option

I was also CAS coordinater at my school - Activity ie sports is one very small aspect of it - the Creativity and Service aspect really needs some thought and commitment too! They need to be able to link every entry in their CAS log to at least one of the learning outcomes etc. It's really quite full on.

Does dd have any ideas about which unis and what she'd like to study?

Placemarking as IB is on offer at my DC's school.

I did, however, meet a young lad who was a second year architecture student. He had done the IB, gone to uni to read History and then changed to architecture. He said the IB was a waste of time but I sincerely do not know whether that was his personal experience /view.

Both my DD's did the IB. It was very hard work and absolutely constant. 6 subjects plus CAS plus TOK/extended essay. However both have said that it was excellent when they got to uni as they were very well prepared, were able to learn independently and write very good essays in a way their peers at state school weren't. However we are in Scotland so we are comparing the IB to highers. I believe A levels are more demanding than highers.

Given that we are waiting two more days for A level results and the IB results have already been out for a while, my flippant remark would be to do the IB....

One son is academically bright and hardworking (and an all rounder). He did IB, went on to do a 4 years undergrad masters in a science (got a first) and then a PhD. He says the IB was the hardest time. My DH and I both did A levels way back when and also think it was harder and more fulltime than our sixth form experiences.

Other less academic son did ok in the IB but he was far less committed and his work rate was a constant worry for us. It was good that he kept his options open because although I think he would have got better results with A levels in his best 3 subjects, he actually wouldn't have the degree and career he has now without having done further qualifications.

My DD is changing schools for Sixth Form. Her new school told us that they had more of their IB students get into their first choice university than A level students last year.

However, DD ruled out the IB as she hates languages, maths and English. Luckily her chosen A levels just what she needs for her two career choices which she's been passionate about since she was 11. Obviously if they do 3/4 A levels, they'll probably be doing an EP or EPQ as well.

My DC1 is going to do the IB. It has so much going for it for folks with broad interests.

DC1 will do Higher Chemistry, English Lit and Anthropology, with Standard Maths, History and Russian from scratch. CAS will be covered by continuing existing volunteering, sport and playing in a rock band.

Our 6th form offers Russian, Japanese and Italian as ab initio languages. They get to better than GCSE standard in the 2 years by having tiny classes and native speakers as tutors.

They've researched the uni subjects they're intetested in and know what IB scores the unis require.

I think that the IB will become more popular. The 6th forms near us who offer it are massively over subscribed. All the info about how well IB students do at Uni is becoming better known. It's got so much going for it.

I think it will become less popular. With a string of excellent GCSE results you don't have to prove you can still juggle 6 subjects.

Far better to go deeper with 3 in my opinion.

cauliflower, as an IB teacher, I agree about going deeper into 3. I wouldn't encourage my ds into the pressure of IB.

DD1 has just finished the IB diploma. She is not an all rounder and has, frankly, struggled, although got good enough grades and is off to Warwick. It was the sheer unrelenting grind and pressure that got her down. The CAS hours (what counts and what doesn't), TOK and the extended essay - the extended essay needed a huge amount of research (largely because her topic was particularly niche and there were only two archives where she could get the information she needed).

It would have helped if she was better organised. The final year, the deadlines come thick and fast and it is easy to get overwhelmed. That said, she got through it! And of her friends, those who missed their offer (some by as much as 5 points) all got accepted into their first choice university.

Her sister is doing A levels...

I did the IB about a million years ago now. As others have said, it is very full on and requires a lot of commitment.

Plus points are that our small cohort of IB students became very close, and we are still friends 25 years on. IB results come out earlier, so despite not getting my conditional offer from a RG uni, they confirmed my place before the A Level results came out. As a PP said, the extended essay was excellent prep for uni and this stood me in excellent stead.

I also enjoyed the international focus, reading literature from all over the world as part of the English HL paper. This might be true of A Level I suppose, but I have no experience of A level so hard to compare.

No one cares now, but early on in my career recruiters were quite interested in why I chose the IB over A levels. It is still pretty rare where I live.

Negative points are that it was bloody hard work and time consuming. I still have dreams about not finishing my coursework. My cohort were the first to do it so our teachers weren't overly familiar with the expected standards, and of course neither were we.

A major advantage for me was continuing with maths. I really struggled with GCSE math but did IB math Studies and my competence and confidence grew massively. I no longer see myself as poor at maths. That could be the teaching but i think it was a further two years of compulsory maths that cemented my knowledge.

TOK was awesome, I loved it.

DS's school only offered IB when he started a few years ago but has since re-introduced A levels as an option. Having spent years droning on about the "academic rigour" of IB and laughing at how easy A levels have become the school is actually not doing anywhere near as well with A levels since introducing them although it continues to have probably the best IB results in the country, an average of 42ish.

Parents are now told about the nice soft landings available with IB grades and how it is much easier to get 7s at IB than A*s at A level. The school particularly struggles with HL maths which they say is because it is so hard but the maths dept is probably the weakest in the school and there's a lot of tutoring (us included).

If your DC was looking to do artsy subjects taking Maths Studies as an option IB might be a good choice, but your DDs options are tough. I am not saying A levels will be easy but juggling all the extra stuff with 6 subjects at IB will be hard going. Why not do an EPQ if she likes the idea of the extended essay?

Thanks for all the advice. A lot to think about and has given us some good ideas of questions to ask.

I´ve taught IB for years. The advantages are a wider educational background - for some that is better than specializing at so young an age. I think that the IB produces well rounded, reflective young people through subjects like CAS, TOK and the Learner Profile. To me that is a plus for the IB. On the minus side, the IB DP is full on, hard work, especially the second year. But one thing past pupils often tell us is that the IB diploma taught them how to plan their week, meet deadlines, and that when it came to writing thesis at university, they had a huge advantage over their peers who had not taken the IB.

My advice to prospective pupils is don´t do it if you don´t enjoy school, studying and are completely unstructured. Do do it if the width of the syllabus appeals, you want an international angle to your education, you like to read and study.

From the options you mentioned, I would probably comment (assuming the school is much like mine in how they teach IB), HL Physics and Maths will be very challenging. I know the teachers in my school say the syllabus is like first year university Maths in parts. But if your daughter is good at these subjects and wants to really work at them, then that´s fine. If she hasn'tdone well at them before, I would be less sure. I think her SL subjects sound good. The French in the DP is surprisingly advanced (assuming she is looking at Language B and not beginners). If she isn´t too keen on French and doesn´t know a lot, I would maybe consider starting a new language.