School reports which give your kids GCSE grades or 'flightpaths' are bollocks

[noblegiraffe]

I've posted quite a lot about how reports which say 'your child is currently working at a 4+ in maths' or 'your child in Y7 is making good progress towards their GCSE target grade' are nonsense.

No one knows how your kid would perform in the new GCSEs because no one has had any results for them yet. This is especially nonsense for the subjects other than maths and English where students haven't even sat their mocks. Students from Y7 up have had GCSE target grades generated for them through a computer program that doesn't have any information about how anyone has actually performed on those GCSEs. These targets will be bobbins, and will be revised the instant any results roll in and so will change year on year as each new Y11 cohort sits the exams. If you've been told these targets by the school, the school is stupid to do so.

Teachers are forced to make up 'working at' numbers, and give a 3+ or a 4- to give an impression of accuracy.

If your kid is in top set Y7 then that's a good sign. If they're in bottom set that's a bad sign for a GCSE pass. But there's a long way to go and a lot can happen. That's as accurate as you're going to get.

There's an interesting twitter thread here where experienced headteachers are discussing exactly how nonsensical these reported grades are.

twitter.com/teacherhead/status/885923507858792457

Comments like 'GCSE grades extrapolated back to KS3 despite the fact we don't even know what they mean for year 11. Utter madness- completely meaningless'

And 'It's nonsense, but the shambles we find ourselves in nationally doesn't help.'

• just confirm that many teachers feel the same way about this illusion of science.

Interestingly, after the Y7 reports came out, school sent an email explaining why some dcs seemed to have been going backwards in one subject during the course of the year. As a result of further information they'd revised the levels! Why do that during the school year?!
The most useful bit of the report was the comment box for each subject. At least from that I can tell that DS2 behaves, does the work set and appears to be doing it well enough. In some cases there was a useful target so he knows there is something he can work on for next term. Much more useful than knowing what number he's supposed to be by the end of year 9.

roundaboutthetown yes parents do believe those grades. Our school reports actually say 'predicted gcse grade' on reports from year 7 onwards so lots of parents do believe this is the grade their child will be getting.

My DD came home earlier in the week with her report saying her 'predicted gcse grades' were 8s and 9s. She isn't likely to get that many 9s she goes to a mediocre comprehensive school who rarely gets students achieving more than 1 or 2 A let alone an entire collection of 8 A.

How ridiculous. Does the school specify that it is predicting these grades itself, or that the government is expecting them based on KS2 SATs results and no knowledge whatsoever of the child concerned?

I'm sure my dss' school said that it had created a 1-9 grading system for where children were seen to be "at" by the school in KS3, because they thought it would be easier for parents to understand now that GCSEs were being moved to 1-9 grades and they were used to the idea of levels or some kind of grading system being reported to them, but that the KS3 syllabus was not a GCSE syllabus, so not to assume they were GCSE result predictions, just a guide to how the child was doing within the KS3 curriculum, using a system of assessment worked out by the school which would be different from that used by other schools. My eyes glazed over at that point, anyway, and I just took away from it that 9 is brilliant and 1 is alarming.

That's how dc school do it too roundabout. The grades are based on exam results. I suspect dd's Games assessment result has been artificially bumped up and doesn't reflect her ability. She started the school on a 3/9 for Games as she isn't great at it. It's now an 8 which matches her target. The target is based on ks2 English and Maths. Obviously English and Maths give no indication of Games ability but i don't blame the games teachers if they've bumped it up as it's a ridiculous target for them to be judged on.

Same system here tooround
With the added thing that children who haven't progressed well Enough by the end of Y8 are told to pull their socks up to make up the gap.

My very big issue is that yes progress might not be what the expected BUT teachers are still reporting good results and being happy with how well the child is doing.... (incl attitude etc)
And teachers have also being saying that it's normal that children haven't progressed as much because they've modified the curriculum to be in line with the new one and it's harder.

What I read there is that if you want your child to do well, it is essential that they have results fir KS1 that are very good (forget about Kate developpers) because good results in KS1 means incentive to get very good results in KS2 and then incentive to get really good results at GCSE.
If you ding do that well, no one will expect anything unless it's really bad iyswim

Littlelda - yes, my ds's "minimum expected grades" for PE, DT and art were ludicrously aspirational, despite the report from his primary school, so they obviously were generated from the SATs results. His actual "monitoring grades" for those subjects, though, have remained realistic and thus miles off the supposed target without the school batting an eyelid (they know he'll never do these subjects at GCSE!!). He always gets the highest effort grades for these subjects and comments which show the teachers know who he is and what he's capable of, and how hard he tries, so I've never been bothered by the ludicrous MEGs in those subjects and neither has he. He starts KS4 in September, so it will be interesting to see if and how the approach changes, as I guess they'll be less able to just ignore MEG targets once he starts the GCSE syllabus, and more parents will be inclined to link MEGs with the minimum grades expected to be achieved at GCSE.

And tbh, I do not understand why a child's MEG for subjects like art, PE and DT would be generated from tests in maths, SPAG and reading, not from teacher assessments of those specific subjects from primary school, or an assessment in the first term of secondary of where the children are at when they start. There is an extremely tenuous connection between physical abilities and spatial awareness, and performance in KS2 SATs.

I think teachers would agree with you, but it's imposed by the government from what I've read on here. Likewise there must be children with low Games targets who are great at Games!

roundaboutthetown
Does the school specify that it is predicting these grades itself, or that the government is expecting them based on KS2 SATs results and no knowledge whatsoever of the child concerned?

Its not clear. They have created a table, in one column it says 'Predicted GCSE grade' and in the other it says 'Effort'

Its clear the 'effort' grade means sod all.

Its not clear how they are predicting GCSE grades. DD is predicted 6 grade 9s and 2 8s. DS predicted 8 Grade 9s.

This is a mediocre, run of the mill, 60% gaining 5 GCSEs grade C and above (2016) type school. Its not Kings College London so predicting 9s is insane.

I'm glad we don't have effort grades. We only get targets for end of KS3 in the Y7 report but they're largely guess work because dcs haven't done or been assessed in some subjects before. DS2 has apparently already achieved his y9 DT target - suggesting the target is wrong, or he got lucky in the exam!
The other thing targets don't take into account is teenagers - they don't think in terms of linear progression and targets. Often, they think there's no rush to do anything for about 4 1/2 years until the exams are looming right in front of them! Ok, a bit exaggerated but not completely!

At Dd's school they get graded A-E for Behaviour, Classwork and homework/organisation each term for each subject. I think it's a good idea as it gives you a fuller picture of what's going on than just an academic grade would

We do get comments on the end of year report and parents evening too, but I think the more info the better.

We don't have effort grades, they are attitude to learning grades, so include punctuality, attentiveness, ability to stick to the task, asking for help if in difficulty, being willing to answer questions in class and contribute to discussions, etc. It helps to know whether there are any issues with, eg, being able to talk to that teacher, or not joining in on discussions, or generally messing about and being disengaged.

Homework organisation grades sound like a much better idea than a vague effort grade! More specific and gives you a clearer picture.

But what does homework organisation mean? Just handing your homework in on time?

Tbh, I know how well my ds is doing his homework and whether or not he is handing it in when he is supposed to, as that gets brought home and parents are given access to Show My Homework and learning journals, so I can easily find out what is being set. What I don't know without being told is how my ds behaves in lessons and how he interracts with the teacher and other students.

Thing is, with behaviour, homework etc if there's a problem, the school is good at getting in touch anyway if there are concerns. And they have other systems. Unfortunately we don't have Show My Homework - it would be quite handy.
I feel for teachers having even more boxes to fill in!

attitude to learning grades, so include punctuality, attentiveness, ability to stick to the task, asking for help if in difficulty, being willing to answer questions in class and contribute to discussions, etc.
Same here at all schools I've worked in.

I like being able to flag up if a child is just coasting by doing the bare minimum to get by but not pushing themselves, especially because by y11 parents always want to know what extra intervention is on offer and my line always has been (and always will be) you have x hours a fortnight in class. Zero intervention from me until you use class time we'll and do your homework properly.

But what does homework organisation mean?
They are two separate things. Homework is doing homework to a good standard and handing it in on time and organisation is always being prepared with the correct equipment/books. There is a key for each grade, so to get an A you would need to always do extension tasks for the hwk.

I think teachers are good at getting in touch if behaviour is bad or children keep turning up late to lessons. They don't necessarily get in touch if your child seldom puts their hand up in class, or doesn't tell them if they haven't understood what they just explained, or just hides away at the back without drawing attention to themselves - ie behaviour that is neither bad nor exemplary, but will affect their learning.

Which is why I like the attitude to learning grades! They can highlight something you really didn't realise about your child in that particular subject.

This is a very interesting thread. My ds (in year 9)'s school uses flightpaths and effort grades (we don't get any written comments). What I am confused about is that his report says he's making expected (or better than expected) progress in subjects for which he has the same flightpath number as he had at Christmas. Surely if it hasn't gone up, he's not making progress? Yet his effort grades for the subjects that matter (ie Maths/English/science and the options he's chosen) are either good or excellent, so he's not coasting.

I don't think the report is very helpful at all!

A report without written comments doesn't sound great from a parent's point of view. We get one report a year with written comments; one parents' evening a year where we can talk to teachers in person; and one sheet a term updating monitoring grades and attitude to learning grades, but no comments, so only of limited use except to reassure that the child isn't going backwards... If genuinely concerned or confused by the information given, staff can be contacted directly to clarify, but I've never felt the need to do that!

Dd ( yr 9) gets half termly data grabs. They have a 'Progress for learning 'grade which measures "contribution to lessons,independent work, use of learning tools,presentation, progress and support of others"
Then they have predicted gcse grades and target grades 1-8.. (no 9's predicted at her school ) for core subjects.
English also gives a current 'working at' gcse grades (1-8)
The report is of very little use at all to me. When Ds went through the same school, he got nowhere near his predicted grades for GCSEs (which were FFT generated from SAT results etc). This was not a huge surprise.. his state primary crammed them for SATs
More useful feedback is parents evening and just looking through dd's books.. finding out what part of the work she's been tackling and how she's seems to be doing.