How to motivate a child....?

[charlmum60]

I'm hoping this is not a case of like mother like daughter ...

I have a very capable able DD who was projected to get A/A's virtually across the board 18 months ago ...now it looks like she will get 5 A/A's and probably the remainder in B's and maybe a C in one subject (or new 1-9) equivalent....she's pretty strong on all the sciences but lost her way a little in Maths (although recoverable).

It's the same scenario in everything she does - Piano - has the ability but scrapes by with a pass in exams....

I guess she's just not focused enough, doesn't have the passion or maybe even the self belief that she can achieve more ...I was much the same at her age ....so is it too late to change this attitude - she's YR 10 going into Yr 11 ?

What does she want to do next; what grades does she need for college (if that is the plan) & what Uni course (assuming that's also the plan)?

What does she do to wind down?
Maybe a mixture of set goals (uni / college,...) and fun time with a good time management plan in place could rekindle her enthusiasm for school/ learning?

No mention of being clever or able - it does not help, they face something challenging they can't solve and they think they are stupid. Instead reinforce effort gets results.

I think she would like to do Interior Design - A'levels aren't a problem - she has three in mind Physics - Design Technology and Business Studies which do actually play to her strengths ...She does Karate and Netball out of school and I'm trying to engage her to become a young leader with Rainbows/Brownies because I think this would build her self esteem - she's great with young kids ...

She does know that when she makes the effort she gets results but she's happy to settle for say the 70% mark rather than the 90% mark ...its as if she doesn't think its worth the extra effort.

Is it worth the effort though? Why does she need 90% when 70% will do?

The most powerful bit of insight I was ever given into the mind of schoolchildren is this:

Children would rather appear lazy than appear stupid.

It suits children rather well when people say they COULD get A grades if they put the work in -- it's actually quite flattering to hear that. Their supposed ability gets the recognition it "deserves" and there's no personal risk involved. But actually to TRY to get As? To jeopardise everyone's belief in your potential? To put your self-esteem at risk? That's a very hard step for a child to take.

It's better to do little work and keep hearing about your potential than to do extra work and risk getting things wrong.

Your DD sounds like she's going to get enviable GCSE results. Please don't underestimate the achievement of even a few A/As. It isn't possible for all students to get As across the board: when she's halfway through 30+ exams next summer you will just be concerned about helping her through it. She might have decided to spend her effort a bit economically -- maybe she doesn't need the personal glory of getting the best grades in the year. If she can get strong grades in her A-Level subjects then tbh you've done your job.

If you want her to take music seriously -- does she enjoy the piano? Really? The clarinet or the guitar or drums or the cello are sociable instruments: you learn them so you can join an ensemble. The piano you play for you and you alone 95% of the time. Don't force it.

Thanks that is enlightening ...her dad wants her to play the Piano - she did play the Violin but got bored with it ...she loves the Ukulele but finding a group within her age range is not easy.... I'm going to take a more laid back approach -I would much rather her do something she loves with a career than be bored ... Oddly enough the HT said to her pretty much the same - and concentrate on the highlights ...I suppose I look back and can see a mirror of me and I have regrets about not making the effort when I was capable ...

She'll need math to go with physics A-level AFAIK.
Her dad wants her to play piano.
You want her to aim for 90%....
It is her life to live, iyswim. Show her how achieving will lead to paths she wants to be on.
But can't make the horse drink the water. No guilt in that.

It sounds like she's doing really well to me!

My DH didn't put a lot of effort in at school. He regrets it and tells the DC all the time that they must give it all 100%. On the other hand I was a miserable loner boffin and my exam results have not led to a well paid life of luxury anyway. So I think mental health is more important and just generally enjoying your teenage years.

We talked with DD1 about wanting to avoid 'if onlys' on results day,
(as in if only I'd worked harder....), and also the people who say 'I could have got As' but actually didn't sound pretty daft. We wanted to her to know she had tried her best, whatever her results.

Better results leads to more options. Universities will potentially look at GCSE results as they will be making offers without any AS grades to go on.

That said, A*-B really isn't too bad you know...

She's forecast to get a 6/7 in Maths, which is fine but this was always her strongest subject - not so now, she doesn't work very hard at all in terms of studying *throughout the year ...although that said she did revise on science and a few other subjects this year and got really good end of year results. This sounds silly but I dont think she yet grasps that a little more effort would lead to better results ...so she's getting some really good results on the back of very little effort! I suppose I would just like her to do her best - but I dont think she is ...

Is there anything wrong with getting 5 As/A*s, Bs and one C though? In my books they would be great grades (and seem to be what DS is likely to get, again someone who doesn't work as hard as he could). I think teens have to be left to motivate themselves TBQH.

Nooo, 6/7 in Maths GCSE when she wants to do Physics A level is not fine! She needs to be really strong in maths if she wants to do physics.

You sound a little complacent, and it bothers me that so many people on this thread are encouraging you to be more complacent, tbh. The GCSE results themselves may not matter that much, but the ability to work hard and consistently is crucial. If she can't do that yet, high time she learned, or she'll crash and burn at A level. It's a skill in itself: it takes practice to keep working, day in day out, even at things that aren't in themselves tremendously engaging or important. (Not saying it's always the right thing to do, of course, but often it is - and in maths for your DD right now it definitely is!)

Working on self-esteem in the hope that it will help her to work hard is backwards IMNSHO - self-esteem is the consequence of working hard, more than the cause.

And so Scottishprof as the OP asks - how to you motivate a child?

That is a good question, and I'm a professor not a school teacher, so my experience with young teens is limited to my own, and might not work with everyone's! (I do, sadly, have LOTS of experience with people who arrive at university without the skills to succeed at this level, which is why I feel strongly about it.) I don't mind pontificating, though :-) I think this applies to most discussions with teenagers, not just those about schoolwork.

1. Work out in your own mind what message you're trying to give and why. The OP's subject is about how to motivate a child, but actually the opening post is more about why she shouldn't bother, why it's unsurprising the child isn't motivated, why it'll be OK, why it's hopeless... sounds as though the child (and a Y10 teenager is a child) is getting mixed messages. The focus here is on the aim not on the means of achieving the aim.

2. Explain that explicitly to your child. That is, don't just give the message: say "I'm trying to give you message X, because Y". That gives you an opportunity to have the discussion about whether your advice is correct, whether there are things you don't understand and/or things your child doesn't understand, and sort them out so that you are on the same page. No point in going on until you and your child agree on an aim.

3. Once you're agreed on an aim, discuss how you're going to get there. Ask what help your child needs. You want to give enough that progress towards the aim is actually made (it's fine and normal that teenagers need help and scaffolding; just because they understand the aim is important and have agreed to the plan doesn't mean they can cope on their own from then on), but not more than is necessary, because you won't be around to help for ever (e.g. at university nobody will check in with them about whether they did any work today!). In the case of consistent working, you might start off with a routine of asking every evening about what work she's done and how it's gone and what she plans to do the next day, and once that's working well, back off to only discussing it at the weekend, say, or to just being available to talk things through when she feels overwhelmed.

4. When things go wrong, help your child get back on track by discussing it calmly. Revisit the aims and the plan for achieving the aims. Are the aims still valid? Is the plan still sensible? If not, revise them, explicitly. Acknowledge that it's hard. Express confidence that your child can do it.

I found this book on The Teenage Brain useful to read and discuss with my teenager - helps to understand why scaffolding from an adult may be necessary to achieve aims, even when the aims are agreed, and to get to a place where it's not a why can't you/why do you never argument. Think of learning to work as being a bit like learning to walk... you don't get exasperated when your toddler falls over again, and you do have confidence that they'll be able to walk as well as you can in due course, and you do encourage and help them as needed.

I'm grateful to you for starting this thread OP. DS is very similar and it's been helpful. Thank you.

Lovely post ScottishProf. I hope I wasn't arguing for complacency before, more that OP shouldn't try to fit her daughter into a mould that isn't hers. But.

I think you need to be specific about what is important between now and GCSEs. Maths seems to be at the centre of this so let's go with that. And ScottishProf is right - there IS a difference between a 6 and an 8 in terms of what it means for a-level.

You need to do some legwork here and find out what's on each Maths paper. You need a topic breakdown and maybe speak with DD's teacher to work out where the gaps are. Why, exactly, is she stuck on that 6? What material is available for her to practise filling those gaps outside of school?

The more specific the better. Then you can have a specific conversation with your child. This is why you need to be smart in how you focus - limit what you're asking her to do. SMART targets and all that. Getting all Grade 9s between now and exams isn't a SMART target. Pulling one or two crucial subjects up to a 7/8 might be.

Students will promise to "work hard" without any practical idea of what hard work looks like. Hard work = time. Simple as that. "I'll work harder" can't just mean "I'll do the same but I'll care more." It has to mean "I'll give a bit more of my time to regular practice in this subject." So as ScottishProf says, you have to deliver that routine somehow.

But motivation comes from success. Your daughter needs short-term wins: rewards for completing a certain amount of supervised homework? Ask her teacher to check some practice Qs on a topic she couldn't do before?

Lots of small steps and small victories. That's motivation.

OP is she young for her year? It may just be that adolescent blip that happens commonly around 14, usually in Year 9 but can often spill into Year 10 especially for summer borns - the rewiring of the brain can put them off their game temporarily. Have you asked her why she seems less focused? Does she actually want to do better?
My other thought about trying to encourage working harder is that at this age their mental health can be very fragile, they can feel under enormous pressure, they can equate exam success with parent love. There's a balance of course, providing support when asked, being interested, removing distractions etc but getting too involved and pushing just a bit too hard can backfire. You know your child be led by them, try to put her in the driving seat.

Ours were a mixed bag of totally driven and 'do just enough'. The 'do just enough' son was incredibly frustrating to parent as he generally appeared demotivated and switched off.
We used a range of measures to ensure he reached 18 with the academic qualifications and extra curricular activities to have a proper choice of where he went after school. Our view has always been a minimum of 3 As at A level means any post 18 choices are made in the knowledge they can do anything. If they then choose something like working in a supermarket, it's a free adult choice. If they work in the supermarket because they duffed their GCSEs and A levels, then in reality there isn't a genuine choice.

We arranged proper work experience in a field that interested him so he could picture what he was aiming for and why.

We made sure he was clear on admission criteria (which for him was wider than academics): my husband attended the army commissions board to make sure we knew what was expected and what they measured.

We actively sought social contacts in senior positions in the army to act as patrons through the admission process and early days. Knowing very senior officers also allowed him to see the potential lifestyle that was the reward of success in his chosen field. It gave him a leg up into his chosen regiment - essential since he was coming from a comprehensive.

We set short term goals with extrinsic reward. Hard cash for GCSE A grades - he was travelling in South America between GCSEs and A levels so we'd have paid anyway but it was linked to achievement. I think we did £50 per A grade nothing for below that. Same sort of thing with AS levels and mocks.

Where he struggled with A level physics we used an online (but live) tutor to offer 1:2:1 support and structure at a point where he was inclined to shrug his shoulders and accept less of himself.

Obviously army is very different but I think Scotsprof is right, you may be giving mixed messages and yet if success is something you want you have to put all your eggs in the basket and go for it without compromise. Set a clear plan. Give her the internal desire but offer structure through extrinsic reward. Worked for us - but wasn't necessarily easy.

I know I said this upthread - and it's not my thread so apologies if this is bad form - but I'm speaking to DS head of year today and every reply has been hugely helpful. Thanks again OP and everyone who replied.

As an a level physics teacher, your child will not do well if they can't self-motivate and if they can't be bothered.

I see pupils do quite well at GCSE with little effort and then fail miserably at A LEvel Physics because they didn't develop skills necessary for A Level success... mainly persistence of effort especially in the face of adversity, and taking responsibility for their own learning and understanding (which is mostly bothering to ask questions and ensure they have a good understanding of everything covered to date, keeping track of areas where they still need to work and then doing the work).

A Level physics is hard. It'll be harder if you aren't a self-starter and you won't succeed if you cba.

Developing good habits at gcse is absolutely critical!! I've seen many kids get a U, E or D when they were an A student at GCSE because they thought their learning was someone else's responsibility. Physics is particularly difficult in this regard because it is mostly top students you are competing against, which makes getting a high grade far more difficult.

I can speak for English Literature too -- students who are expecting GCSE part 2 tend to fail miserably. This isn't "read the book and learn some key quotes". To excel at A-Level requires a lot of independent reading and thought.