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Secondary education

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How critical are University Open days?

55 replies

TisGlorious · 29/06/2017 12:48

I understand they are a opportunity to find out more about a proposed course, it's structure, content etc
An opportunity to get a feel for the University and its surroundings.

What I'd like to know is does it form part of the admissions process? Are only limited numbers of candidates able to visit?
Why do people have to book? (Apart from wanting to know numbers) If you don't book can you still attend? Does not attending look bad for your application?

OP posts:
user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 05:34

(which is why I'm confused about a poster writing references now?).

references are rarely down to one person, you collect a short reference from as many staff as possible, and edit them and combine them.

Producing a reference takes the school a long time!

I'm leaving in the summer, so every partial reference I am contributing
has to be ready and with the tutors before I leave.

Even people not leaving the school will be writing their bits of references now. You need to do it whilst the student is in front of you, really, and you need to be able to ask them things. What are they apply for? What are they highlighting in their personal statement?
what do they want you to mention? etc. Some applications will be submitted in September, but some not until January. Even without leaving the school it is very possible not to have seen the student for 6 months, and have very hazy memories of them by then.

If what I write is no longer applicable, because the student has changed their mind about what they are applying for, or something, then their tutor will edit my comments before the final draft.

Writing a reference, as a contributor or an editor, i ask the student things like

What aspect of the course have you enjoyed most? What are you mentioning in your personal statement? What do you consider your strengths? What have you contributed to the school/ class over the last few years. What have you contributed to the wider community? What reading and activitiies and open days have you done? What aspect of the subject can you discuss with me, here and now, that you haven't specifically been taught, but have researched alone, etc

The other reason to start early is because quite often, a student will not have contributed ANYTHING to their school or community, then are dispatched off to contribute something, ans told to return later having contributed.

(Some students surprise me though, one real PITA student who I guessed would be a non contributor in fact came out with a huge list of things they had done for other people over the past year - it all checked out and was very impressive)

Likewise, if a student has done no activities, independent reading, etc, they will need to do this before either the reference or the personal statement can be completed.

This is where open days, etc, come in. Just turning up to an open day and wondering around, not so much, but for example attending a specimen lecture at an open day and being able to discuss the content is the best possible way of showing you are someone who will be able to enjoy and benefit from the lectures of staff in that department.

Of course, if students have no contributions to the school, I am able to help them identify some opportunities, likewise with reading. But open days are largely down to sorting it out for yourself! Schools may arrange the occasional one, but its the individual students who need to organise themselves for the rest.

Sixth forms are able to award bursaries to families with an income of under 45k (both parents income combined normally, even if parents are separated) and one grounds for this is coach fare to open days.

IDismyname · 01/07/2017 05:42

Universities have you on their radar if you've attended their open day, so I would consider it time well spent if that's where you're considering going. It's definitely not part of their selection criteria, but it was mentioned at both interviews that DS went to.

DSs school didn't allow any open day visits during term time (and they had Saturday school) which made it a challenge. In the end, he didn't miss any school to attend open days, but I would have allowed it if necessary.

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 05:44

Why on earth are you using up precious characters saying that the applicant went to open days? you have NO IDEA what a nightmare it is to find enough to say about many pupils!!

I wouldn't list open days no, I would say something like

"Jane has shown her commitment for making daisy chains, visiting 3 University daisy chain departments in the past few months. She attended lectures on both selecting the daisies, and on making the slit in the stem, returning to school excited and enthused by what she has learnt. She was able to explain clearly explain the most recent developments in petal counting to me, and supported her classmates by applying her new understanding to a group task and stem length"

or similar.

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 05:46

I don't believe you. whatever, up to you isn't it, and certainly no skin off my nose!

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 05:50

Really? You're a teaching assistant dealing with kids with very low levels of literacy? And you're writing UCAS references for them?

believe it or not, there are such things as dyslexic sixth formers, they also get support. Some of the are actually not well known to anyone EXCEPT me, if they have had a large turn over of teaching staff in the year.

Someone's telling porkies!

some people just have no idea what goes on in schools.

BizzyFizzy · 01/07/2017 05:55

Unless an interview is involved, there's no application need to attend an interview, and it's not worth mentioning in the UCAS form - find something better to say with those characters!

I've had four DCs go through the system and they've all had a full set of offers. DS1 didn't go to any realistic ones (he had a school trip to one, and I dragged him to the local place fed up with his passiveness), DS2 went to two post-offer days and ended up going to a third. DD1 went to the local pre-application, and two further away ones post-offer. DD2 went to 4 pre-application and her firm choice post-offer.

I think it is a good idea to go to a couple pre-application just to focus the mind, if nothing else. Even if it is your local university, there are plenty of things that all universities have in common that help the young person to start thinking about their future. They can come up with a list of pros and cons of that place and use that to help their online research of other places.

Personally, I think the main thing is to get the course right, and then compromise on all the non-academic things. But that's just me.

It's probably a good idea to at least go to the post offer day (if the pre application days were missed) for the place you are thinking about firming.

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 05:56

I mean really, people. How long do you think these references take to write! How many references or contributions to references do you think staff have to do! I always make an appointment to interview every individual I am writing a reference or reference contribution for. It is a MASSIVE job. it is INCREDIBLY hard to find enough good things to say about some pupils. Staff leave, you know, staff also forget pupils.

And it is precisely BECAUSE I am so knowledgeable, experienced and successful about the UCAS procedure that I have been appointed head of sixth form.

I have done very little this year, just preparing my reference contributions for the 10 sixth formers I support. My knowledge of the full form is a year old, and they do change every year, so it is possible that things may be slightly different. I will be undergoing further training in the summer, and every year thereafter.

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 05:57

but I think you will find most schools have started reference writing, and are probably doing it right now

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 05:57

Don;t forget applications go in from September, and offers start being made straight away.

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 06:02

Some schools get pupils thinking about the Personal statements before, but they don't need to be done until the first term of Yr13

most schools I know have UCAS time in June or July, after the year 13s have left.

This is typically 3-5 days off lessons, concentrating on completing UCAS statements. There will be little or no lesson time available for this after the start of term, and some applications will go off in Septemeber.

AtiaoftheJulii · 01/07/2017 06:08

And it is precisely BECAUSE I am so knowledgeable, experienced and successful about the UCAS procedure that I have been appointed head of sixth form.

Except you think there's a section for "activities undertaken in preparation for your application" on the UCAS form, which there isn't.

AtiaoftheJulii · 01/07/2017 06:11

most schools I know have UCAS time in June or July, after the year 13s have left. This is typically 3-5 days off lessons,

No schools I know, or have heard about on mumsnet, do this. Filling in your UCAS form is done in your own time.

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 06:12

Except you think there's a section for "activities undertaken in preparation for your application" on the UCAS form, which there isn't

well, there certainly was last year, and different university websites still have guidance about how they want that filled, including a couple of universities which say they disregard that section!

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 06:14

Filling in your UCAS form is done in your own time.

after the initial UCAS week, yes, although the best students will have finished it by the end of the week.

AtiaoftheJulii · 01/07/2017 06:16

Anyway, Tis, sorry for derailing!

I look forward to September's y12 thread Smile

AtiaoftheJulii · 01/07/2017 06:28

well, there certainly was last year, and different university websites still have guidance about how they want that filled

Very odd it's not mentioned in the UCAS website then, in all their help about how to apply.

Could you link to one of these university websites then?

Lancelottie · 01/07/2017 09:14

Do you mean there's a section on it for the referee, User?
There wasn't a section on it when ds1 applied - just for results, predictions and personal statement

If that fresh horror awaits for dd, we'll have a think about it early.

Does a good university candidate really need to be a 'contributor to school life'? Some of us were just good at the work and then went home to have a life.

AtiaoftheJulii · 01/07/2017 09:28

I know my dds' references were almost entirely academic, with maybe a sentence about 'contributions'. Ds's will have to be entirely academic, lol!

titchy · 01/07/2017 10:39

Jane has shown her commitment for making daisy chains, visiting 3 University daisy chain departments in the past few months. She attended lectures on both selecting the daisies, and on making the slit in the stem, returning to school excited and enthused by what she has learnt. She was able to explain clearly explain the most recent developments in petal counting to me, and supported her classmates by applying her new understanding to a group task and stem length"

If this is what you're writing as an academic reference and on the off chance you're real this is a great example of what NOT to write. It is however a great example of a personal statement.

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 15:51

I know my dds' references were almost entirely academic, with maybe a sentence about 'contributions'. Ds's will have to be entirely academic, lol!

That's not good, if the reference doesn't refer to good punctuality, attendance and contributions, then the reader is going to assume there is nothing good to say about the candidates punctuality, attendance and contributions.

Does a good university candidate really need to be a 'contributor to school life'? Some of us were just good at the work and then went home to have a life.

That's fine, that is why students are interviewed individually by their referee. Some students contribute nothing in school, but plenty outside, and as long as i can verify it, that is just as valuable. Its about how active the student is in society, rather than specifically about the school.

In the past I have taken contributions from vicars, venture scout leaders, sports coaches, etc, all outside of school but all able to speak about the contributions an individual has made.

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 15:53

If this is what you're writing as an academic reference and on the off chance you're real this is a great example of what NOT to write no, this is what we are asked for, along with academic strengths etc, and other things.

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 15:55

worst case scenario, can't say anything at all about attendance, punctuality, contributions, commitment, development or scholarship, and have to resort to describing the school! This has happened. It also happens that not all references are the maximum length. Sometimes simply not enough to say.

mumsneedwine · 01/07/2017 16:27

I write loads of these references every year. Spend hours on them. So bit galling to be told by Admissions Tutor that they don't even read it - for medicine 😳. Has only been one Uni so far but did make me groan

user1497480444 · 01/07/2017 16:32

I write loads of these references every year. Spend hours on them. So bit galling to be told by Admissions Tutor that they don't even read it - for medicine 😳. Has only been one Uni so far but did make me groan

some do some don't. Like I said, some universities specify that they don't look at the "activities in preparation" section. Some read personal statements, some don't.

More than three quarters of the weight of any UCAS application is the predicted grades, plus attendance and punctuality data.

Sometimes that is ALL that is looked at. But in other cases, the whole thing is examined.

AtiaoftheJulii · 01/07/2017 16:40

That's not good, if the reference doesn't refer to good punctuality, attendance and contributions, then the reader is going to assume there is nothing good to say about the candidates punctuality, attendance and contributions.

Well, actually it turned out really well for both of them Grin Maybe if there really isn't much to say about a student's academic prowess then such padding is more necessary.

Like I said, some universities specify that they don't look at the "activities in preparation" section.

Like I said, this section does not exist in the applicant's part of the UCAS form - maybe (trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here) it's given to the school as a suggestion of something to put in a reference??? Still waiting for you to link to universities' comments about it, anyway.

How academic is your next school? I feel like you might have quite a steep learning curve there!