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Secondary education

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GCSE Pass Grade Confusion

37 replies

TheFrendo · 28/06/2017 08:03

GCSE pass levels causing confusion over university entry

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40418457

Universities are now setting different "pass" grade equivalents.

University College London says a C grade pass now requires a grade 5, while Manchester University has set the benchmark at grade 4.

No surprise there.

OP posts:
JufusMum · 28/06/2017 09:16

This is all such a mess, I feel for our poor DC's.

grumpysquash3 · 28/06/2017 09:18

Our school has been warning us about this for the last 2 years - but clearly unable to do anything about it.

TheDrsDocMartens · 28/06/2017 09:23

It does say universities were sometimes asking for Bs before so not as bad as it makes out. I do think this whole system was rushed in and I'll thought out though. Some of the changes to subjects are massive

TisGlorious · 28/06/2017 09:32

How bloody confusing and what is a 'Pass' I.e a 4 and a 'Strong pass', a 5? It's so convoluted. Does anyone also agree that those applying to the likes of UCL, Imperial etc are unlikely to be struggling to get a 5 anyway. I can't see ow they have interpreted a C as equivalent to a 5 when it's clear from JG's statement hat it is meant to be a 4? Why is she not querying the individual nversiies over his? Can units just decide what heir own equivalents are?

TisGlorious · 28/06/2017 09:32

Sorry about the typos.

steppemum · 28/06/2017 09:38

ds is 14 and year 9. We had a talk from school about the new system. I also did a bit of research on it to try and understand it.

This seems to be the gist of it.

The reason for bringing in the whole new system, frem NC changes in primary right through to GCSE is to raise standards. This is exlicitly stated in various places.

So, the old grade C is equivalent to the grade 4. BUT because the givernment thinks that that levelis too low for our 'pass' mark, and it want to raise standards, it will be raiseing that pass level to grade 5.
So, this year, the first year of grade 4 etc they will let the pas be grade 4, with the expectation that it will change to a 5 shortly.

That means that soon (not that no time llines are in any of this) to be considered to have a maths and English GCSE, you will need that at grade 5, even though that is a higher level than grade C.

So that's all as clear as mud then

steppemum · 28/06/2017 09:40

sigh
I can spell, I just can't type

TisGlorious · 28/06/2017 09:47

Steppemum - thanks for explaining that. However, no one with those grades I.e the new number system will be entering university this year though, so what's all the angst amongst the top Unis trying to differentiate themselves? Or is the numerical grading system going to be used for grading this years A'Levels? In which case I u derstand.

caringcarer · 28/06/2017 09:55

To get into Uni candidates are expected to have passed Maths, English and Science at GCSE (grade 4) and have A levels at specified grades for course applied for. I am secondary teacher and using this new system and we have been told grade 4 for at least a couple of years before more change. A levels/Btecs etc taken in Sixth Form will determine University entry requirements.

steppemum · 28/06/2017 09:56

well in the past you needed to pass your GCSE in order to do the A level in it (OK in some cases they asked for a higher grade, but the principle is same)
Also for many Further Ed /university courses it is a requirement for you to have grade C in Maths and English.
Our local sixth form college has a group every year retaking their Maths and English.

eg to be a teacher, you need 3 A levels plus GCSE Maths and English at grade C. So if you take you GCSEs now, get a grade 4, don't retake, do your A levels and apply to teaching, you may suddenly find they are asking for grade 5 in GCSE Maths and English, and you didn't retake and up your grade, and you only have a grade 4.

So, that disctinction between and 4 and 5 could be crucial.

Given all that I have read about the new Maths, it seems as if it is really hard anyway, and so many kids may find themselves in this position

So this will have an effect for kids sitting this year.

troutsprout · 28/06/2017 10:40

I don't think that's quite right steppemum

JG sneaked this in in March... (wasn't widely reported though.. funny that)-

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/603594/ESC_letter.pdf

So according to that letter, pass/c is a 4 and will remain that for the purposes of moving on to HE

But ..I don't believe a word that comes out of any of the governments mouths ATM.. so watch this space ... no doubt they will move the goal posts again.

TisGlorious · 28/06/2017 11:45

I wish our leaders will just call a spade indeed a spade. I've read that letter by JG, thanks for that trout. Lots of waffle about 'standard pass' and 'strong pass'. Reading between the lines, as a top university or employer, I would be recruiting only those who get a strong pass I.e a 5. A standard pass, though cleverly worded, sounds like a euphemism for weak pass. Why can't we just one grade equivalent to a 'pass'.

BertrandRussell · 28/06/2017 11:49

My understanding is that a 4 is definitely a "pass" -i.e.an old "C"

troutsprout · 28/06/2017 12:11

I'm so angry at this mess
If they want HE colleges/ unis to recognise a 4 then why create a bloody grading system with 2 numbers as an equivalent letter grade.

steppemum · 28/06/2017 12:42

trout - so as I understand it then they are promising not to raise the pass from 4 to 5 at the moment?

noblegiraffe · 28/06/2017 13:22

It was previously that a 5 was the only pass and a 4 would be acceptable only for 6th form maths and English resit purposes, and for the first two years only.

5 weeks before the kids started sitting the actual GCSEs, the government bottled it. They realised that it would be a disaster in the summer when the pass rate for English and maths plummeted by 23% as it is set to do for the 5. Gove said years ago that this would happen and people would just have to live with it.

They botched it and said now a 4 was a pass too, a 'standard pass'. That this would count for resit requirements, university entry, jobs, forever. Now in August the pass rate will be the same as last year, saving the government embarrassment.

They announced this in the evening of the day before the Article 50 notification in order to bury the news, even though they knew weeks before they were going to do it.

We will still have a results shambles, but that has been postponed to January. School pass rates will be set by the 5 grade not the 4, so we will see the 23% pass rate reduction then. Crucially this will only affect schools and not pupils so voters will care less.

The message has yet to get out to employers, universities and so on because the whole thing has been a shitshow from start to finish.

troutsprout · 28/06/2017 13:38

Noble explained it perfectly
Steppe... A promise from this government ... mmmmm🤔

steppemum · 28/06/2017 14:05

Ah - that makes sense!
Thanks noble!

trout Grin

BertrandRussell · 28/06/2017 14:24

"School pass rates will be set by the 5 grade not the 4,"

Shit-I didn't realize that. Our school is screwed.

troutsprout · 28/06/2017 14:32

Dc's school will be too Bertrand
Angry

TeenAndTween · 28/06/2017 14:33

Still confusion here too. I spoke to someone at a 'post-16' event last night from our local BTEC college. She was saying that for current y10s they would need 5s for Maths & English ... I'm hoping she was just behind the times.

BertrandRussell · 28/06/2017 14:35

Add to that the fact that you get more "points" for getting someone from A to A* than you do for getting someone from D to C......

LooseAtTheSeams · 28/06/2017 15:27

Noble's explanation is spot on. Just to add, Greening said schools will have to publish both the number of students getting 4 and above as well as the number getting 5 and above but only the latter carries weight in league tables. This is a bit nightmarish for those of us in FE where students are basically just trying to pass so they can get on with their fashion design/digital media/ childcare etc qualification! Also to achieve a 4 you need to tackle more difficult content than was included for a C.
Universities can set their entry levels where they want, however, so the benchmark will vary and they may adjust a 5 down to a 4 on a case-by-case basis.

tiggytape · 28/06/2017 15:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

marine04 · 29/06/2017 14:35

I am really confused. One of the places that my son is considering for sixth form has told me that he has to get a grade 5 in his maths gcse or he won't be able to be admitted. I have been told that this is because legally if they are not able to facilitate him resitting (which they say they are not because they don't have access to a maths gcse teacher as they are a sixth form 'college' although realistically they are just a separate building on the school site) to get the pass grade they are not allowed to take him on. The head of sixth form has said that the government have currently set the pass rate as a five for schools and although there has been some whispers about it moving to a four that has yet to happen. My son is bright but dyslexic/dyscalculic/dyspraxic; he has sat the foundation paper and should be able to get a five but he suffered some very distressing circumstances during his exam period (for which the school have applied for extenuating circumstances for him) and so his grade may be lower. Justine Greenings letter seems to indicate that a four will be a pass at which resits won't be deemed necessary so are school right and will they in these circumstances not be allowed to take him on? Any help gratefully received.

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