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Secondary education

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Original poster

No mfl/humanities for gcse... bad idea?#

71 replies

Therealslimshady1 · 27/06/2017 17:25

DS (yr 9) feels very strongly that he wants to drop History/Geography/and MFL altogether.

Whilst his school (state comp)expects most pupils to do the ebac, he would be allowed to do other stuff instead.

He'd do maths, stats, english, triple science, design and technology, computing and music.

To me that looks a fairly solid list of gcse, playing to his strengths (Stem) and avoiding his weaknesses (dyslexia, so hates languages/writing etc)

Am not British, and some of my British friends are concerned/think I am wrong for allowing him to not do the ebac.

Will it aversely affect his chances in life (a level, uni) if he does not do a language?

As to history and geography, I think computing and tech are actually more relevant???

It seems scary to go against the grain Grin

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 28/06/2017 08:23

He won't be able to avoid RE- and it may surprise him. The discussions in RE lessons helped to...errr.. tone down. ..my ds's teen arrogance! It ended up one of his favourite subjects.

Mulledwine1 · 28/06/2017 08:43

I usually say that I think all kids should do an MFL and humanity, but he is doing music, so that extends his range a bit.

Is he sure about music? 40% of the exam mark was composing when I did it, if it's still the case does that suit him?

Ultimately as people have said, doing stuff you enjoy and will get high grades for is important.

Mulledwine1 · 28/06/2017 08:44

As for RE - yes my ds has chosen not to do it but is a bit sorry about it now - he really likes it. But he is doing history and geography (and a language) so can't fit it in.

Traalaa · 28/06/2017 09:32

I am watching this with interest, as I've got a year 8 dyslexic son, so he'll choose options next year. We'll let him choose what he wants and thinks he can do well at. Just because it's interesting and related down the line, does anyone know what the admissions/ UCAS position is on dyslexia? I know universities can't openly discriminate, but could it make it less likely they'll get offers? Is it ignored so long as they have the required grade predictions? Is it even a plus, as it helps Universities show they're fully accessible, etc..

AlexanderHamilton · 28/06/2017 09:40

That sounds fine. The fact Music is included gives a bit of variation, (he'll have to write about musical styles & know a bit of history for context as part of the exam.

AlexanderHamilton · 28/06/2017 09:41

As for music, if he's also into computers it might be worth investing in a really good composition programme like Sibelius

AlexanderHamilton · 28/06/2017 09:44

Leanne - my atheist dd loves RE (she wants to take it at A level) but her school just do the odd session as part of PHSE for those who don't opt for GCSE. It seems to suffice.

steppemum · 28/06/2017 10:10

ds is year 9, and when he did his choices, the school was at pains to tell us that the whole EBAC thing is not something they have seen being asked for by universities at all, and so wasn't an issue.

It looks like a good set of GCSEs

randomsabreuse · 28/06/2017 10:23

He might also like Musescore which is free and open source and I think people add plug ins.

BubblesBuddy · 28/06/2017 10:35

If we do not study history, we cannot learn from it. It is very much for the future. I fear that children see themselves as techies but then can only get niche jobs because communication is important in many jobs. My DH owns a mid sized Civil and Structural Engineering Consultancy and peope who cannot write accurately to clients are a pain in the backside - they need their letters to be checked! They will never get to a managerial level. Do encourage him to develop his writing!

WombatChocolate · 28/06/2017 13:21

In the independent,selective and highly successful school I work in, each child's timetable is bespoke.
Most will do the ebacc, but quite a few won't. Careful attention is paid to what they want to do, what they will get the highest grades in and any ideas they have for next.

At the end of the day, all of the options offered are GCSEs with no real soft options, but the school is keen for the kids to get a set of grades which are the highest they can achieve and open doors to the A levels and degrees they want to do. So most do ebacc, but some won't have a language or a humanity because they really want to do other stuff and wouldnt be good at languages for example. They have the future implications spelled out to them. No A Level can be taken here without at least an A grade - so getting the high grades is really important....and it is for ucas too.

At the end of the day it is better to have 8 high grade GCSEs to include a number of academic subjects, including the core ones, than 12 GCSES at mediocre grades, including all of the ebacc subjects.

Someone who is a bit lazy and doesnt fancy a language or humanity would need to make a good case for not doing them and appreciate some of the doors being closed.....but given that, there is little point in being totally rigid.

In my mind, ebacc measures a school, not the child - it shows how many are being entered for the full range and achieving them - useful for parents to see and def a good sign. However, this doesnt mean all individuals need it and nowhere will a kid have to write down if they achieved or did not achieve the ebacc - it is not like getting 5 A*-C etc.

LeannePerrins · 28/06/2017 13:36

my atheist dd loves RE (she wants to take it at A level) but her school just do the odd session as part of PHSE for those who don't opt for GCSE. It seems to suffice.

Yes, lots of schools do this, and I do think it's a bit of a shame. I've seen fantastic practice in schools where Philosophy and Ethics is a compulsory subject. It is really engaging and it is very, very good for teenagers (especially those with a tendency towards arrogance!) to have their thinking challenged.

It sounds like OP and her DS are pretty happy with his options. I do think that you will have to be mindful in the coming years, OP, that there are going to be some pretty big gaps in his education and that you will need to address these outside of schools. He needs to read newspapers (even if he is reluctant - this is also really important for his English GCSE), develop a working knowledge of history and geography, engage with the moral and ethical issues relating to science and computing (e.g. privacy etc). None of this needs to happen in school (and the curriculum is so stuffed that it probably won't) but it can and should happen at home.

sendsummer · 28/06/2017 17:25

Depends what the option blocks are but I would n't bother with stats and I agree with others that he should strongly consider RE as a balance. Ethics are relevant to science and it will develop his abilities for articulating views and his writing skills a bit more. Understanding the point of reference of others is never a waste of time.
However I am unsure how much the syllabus will change because if it becomes all about learning chunks of the Bible then it definitely won't suit him. Smile.

Original poster
Therealslimshady1 · 28/06/2017 18:43

Thanks for the music composition advice. He plays 2 instruments, and should hopefully be ok

About Geography and History, I agree with what you all say (that it IS important, if only for general education), but then I am always so disappointed that the kids never simply learn "all countries in Europe, Capitals, and language spoken" and then the same for the World. IYSWIM?

OP posts:
Original poster
Therealslimshady1 · 28/06/2017 18:44

AlexanderHamilton, will check out music composing programmes!

OP posts:
GreenTulips · 28/06/2017 18:49

You said you aren't British - so do you speak another language as a first language? Does DS know this language? Could he pass a GCSE in it at college?

hellsbells99 · 28/06/2017 18:52

His choices look fine to me. My DD didn't do geography or history as she wanted to do music and art. She is now in the first year of a maths degree. As long as they do maths and English and get decent grades in at least 5/6 GCSEs, the subjects really don't matter as long as they are the right ones for A level choices.

Original poster
Therealslimshady1 · 29/06/2017 07:59

Greentips, yes....Dutch and German but DS speaks neither (long story, he used to be bilingual until the age of 6, then it just went)

OP posts:
Mulledwine1 · 29/06/2017 09:15

What a shame, it might be able to be reactivated though? There is a great Dutch course on Futurelearn - I did it and liked it so much that I went through three runs of the course. The course itself is free but if you want a certificate, and/or to be able to do the course in your own timeframe you have to upgrade. They do a Frisian course too.

Original poster
Therealslimshady1 · 29/06/2017 16:52

I always hope he'll pick up a language again, but maybe not in a gcse setting

I think people learn languages quicker if it is important they do (eg because they live in that country)

OP posts:
MaryTheCanary · 02/07/2017 12:42

Religion and history are about the past, and he is interested in the future (again, teen arrogance attitude)
Please do not take this the wrong way, but this kind of attitude sounds to me like a very good reason why he should be taking history and geography. At least one. Preferably both. I am sure he is a good kid, but it sounds like he needs to broaden his horizons and learn more about the world at large.

Education is not just about prepping narrowly for a career; it is also about being an informed voter, consumer and citizen. And it is about learning in a way that will allow one to pursue one's career in a way that benefits the human race, not just one's own bank balance.

When tech-y people are clueless about the past and present of the world, there is the potential for a lot of harm to be done. Technology can be a force for evil as well as good.

He should take at least one humanity, sorry. I actually think it's appalling that the British education system allows people to specialize so much at such an early age.

Blanketdog · 02/07/2017 19:06

Education is not just about prepping narrowly for a career; it is also about being an informed voter, consumer and citizen. And it is about learning in a way that will allow one to pursue one's career in a way that benefits the human race, not just one's own bank balance. Agree! But education is not just about GCSEs - it's much bigger than that! Encouraging an interest in the world around you is often easier to do at home, with time - guided by things like world events, every day experiences, museums, rallies, performances, people and travel, education is never-ending.
Unfortunately inspiring students to take an active interest in life outside the classroom is not a top priority for our schools, especially with the ever decreasing budgets and the ever increasing workloads they face - passing exams is what they are measured on - but passing exams is not the same as being a well informed, self-motivated, interested citizen.

Original poster
Therealslimshady1 · 03/07/2017 07:37

I sort of agree, Mary, but I also think that a lot of education happens in the home.

We often talk politics/history/ethics etc. over dinner. I have another DS who is seriously into history, RE, CPR etc, which helps.

I won't let him off the hook of responsibility to "educate yourself"

The language....I hope he'll go abroad one day, and learns one!

OP posts:
MaryTheCanary · 03/07/2017 11:53

It's definitely the case that people can learn about history and geography in their free time---if they are interested enough to read about it as well. Don't know if that's likely for a boy who thinks that these subjects are irrelevant to him....

I just wish that schools/the government would insist that kids have to do a full range of subjects including humanities, so that parents do not have to be the "bad guy" in situations like this. In most countries, kids have to study humanities, sciences and maths right up to 18...

iseenodust · 03/07/2017 12:19

I think you are missing a trick not to have him do German now. He was bilingual and you can clearly offer support at home. Agree with others that while playing to his strengths it is early to narrow down so much. The world is full of adults who were going to learn a language but never got round to it.