Year 9 dd, no friendship group and residential trip

[Dancergirl]

My Year 9 dd has never really been that happy friends-wise at secondary school since the start really.

She goes to a selective girls' school and the whole 'friendship group' thing seems to be a thing. The groups are quite tight and it's seen as weird/clingy/needy to hang out or socialise with someone not in your group.

Dd does have various friends at school but doesn't have a group. We have talked about it a lot over the years, she says I don't really understand how things are these days. She often feels quite left out and alone, yesterday in DT she tried 3 times to sit down to be told seats were saved for such and such.

I've talked to the Head of KS3 a few times, she's been sympathetic and ensures me that friendship issues are frequently dealt with in PSHE and they keep a close eye on things.

People say that friendship groups do shift a lot, but tbh I haven't seen that much movement in 3 years.

Next week the whole of the year group are away on a residential trip. Dd told me this week there have been signing up boards for rooms. She asked a few people if she could share with them but their rooms were full. She considered putting her name down on an empty space to see if anyone would join her.

There is one big friendship group who are probably the 'cool' group. Dd says some of the girls are quite nice individually but as a group they are quite cliquey and bitchy. Anyway, one of the girls in this group encouraged dd to join their room which was nice. But dd spoke to a few of the others afterwards and it seems that some of them aren't too happy that she's there as they are all close friends and the dynamic will be different. Dd is now worrying that it'll be awkward and her presence will affect their enjoyment of the trip. Dd noticed on of them saying to another 'dd's in our room' with a sort of raised eyebrow look.

I know dd can be quite intense sometimes and I worry this puts people off. I've noticed that the popular girls tend to be the happy, easy going ones who don't get too caught up in the whole who said what/did what etc. I've talked to dd about not being defensive and giving off a negative vibe, she says she tries hard at school not to.

I just don't know what to do any more and feel mentally exhausted with it all. Maybe I am too involved, I don't know. Of course I am pleased that dd talks to me and opens up, I don't want to belittle her feelings but at the same time maybe I should take a step back.

Does anyone have any advice please?

Have you thought about moving her schools?
Sometimes kids get stuck in a class that just isn't right for them?

lottie dd said yesterday that she would stay for GCSEs to see if things improve and if not, move for sixth form. But I'm not sure she (or I) can bear another two years of this.

But Year 10 is a turning point, they'll be mixed up depending on GCSE subjects so she might be lucky and make some new friends. I don't know, it's a gamble to move and a gamble to stay!

Well I think if you take a "step back" your daughter will feel even more rubbish.

You can listen & show support while still communicating that in the end these things don't matter (impossible for a 14 year old to grasp at this stage of life, unfortunately). If you show that you are not worried, this will reassure her. Just tell her to go and try and have a good time but in the end not to worry. If she's giving off a negative vibe that's probably only because she's stressed. It's a very intense age - especially for girls. Just make sure you will always think she's great no matter what

Yes I totally get that, Its really difficult when you don't know what the outcome will be, Are there any additional clubs at school your dd could get into to make more friends at school. Or even any out of school that could help in regards to making friends?

I do try to live She is a very kind, loyal and thoughtful girl, I find it difficult that people are mean to her. I know it will all work out in the long run but she wants to be happy at school. Primary school was difficult too and was looking forward to a new start.

I worry about her self esteem. I want her to hold her head up high and be proud of who she is, but she says she often doesn't like herself

She is involved in a youth organisation out of school so that's something. And she goes to a Saturday drama school which she also enjoys.

Sorry - I think I came across heavy-handed. It's natural to worry - of course, she is your daughter :). It's just important not to project anything that you would like for her on to her in a way that would stress her (not accusing you of doing so). And equally, her problems should not become your problems.

I can remember worrying at that age that I wanted to have "good times to look back on" (paaaahaha!) I mean, school was fine, points of it were fun but really, in terms of stuff I look back on fondly being 14 doesn't count too highly.

Actually, the memories from that time that do stand out were times doing stuff outside of school. That's great your daughter has those activities to enjoy. I think there is a lot to be said for friendships forged out of "doing" and "creating" things together. (I still find this as an adult). It's like friendships are a by product of the shared process, rather than people trying to rub up against each other the right way at random. Especially at that age, outside of school stuff doesn't have the "pressure cooker" atmosphere of the classroom. In the end, school is just a bunch of randomly assigned kids of the same age shoved together to learn as individuals. They laugh and gossip and snipe etc just to pass the time.

Thank you live

Actually the Autumn term at school is always good for dd as they rehearse the school play which is performed in early December. Dd has been in the last 2 productions and has really enjoyed the rehearsal period and made friends with girls from other year groups. It does go a bit flat though in January when it's all over.

I probably AM a bit over-invested and spend time worrying about it. Dd is actually a lot like me and also tend to dwell on things.

If she did move now, I don't have a clue where she would go. Academically the school really suits her and she's looking forward to starting her GCSE subjects.

I am just perplexed at how introspective and narrow minded a lot of these girls seem to be: ONLY socialising with people in your 'group'.

Wow - this brings me back, big time. Like full-on smack-round-the-face time. Right down to the excitement of rehearsals, making friends across the year groups, everything existing temporarily in the bubble of getting a performance ready... and then it's over. All I can say is tell your daughter to keep those performances up - she clearly is emotionally intelligent if she's making friends with girls from other years during rehearsal periods. It's a shame that it's the lore of school that year groups are so rigid in determining friendship groups.

I don't think it would be worth moving her now either - that's great that she's looking forward to her GCSE s. Maybe just tell her to look out for the other "drifters"; there are bound to be quite a few kids in the same boat, who aren't bullied as such, but who lack an anchor group. Female friendships can be so strange at that age; as intense as any romance in cases and yet allegiances can switch so quickly. Plus, another thing is to not compare your insides with everyone else's outsides. Some girls may appear like they have it all right now, social-standing wise, and yet they are probably also battling their own insecurities and worries. It's a fraught time. It's good that your daughter is kind and loyal as you say, these are the best tools with which to face the fickleness of teenage girls!!

Thank you so much live and lottie for your kindness and understanding.

With the trip, do you think dd should just stick it out in a room with this group even though it's clear some of them don't want her there? Or should I encourage her to find a different room? I don't think there will be space anywhere else now. Dd said last night she doesn't want to go but I think it will be worse for her socially if she doesn't.

No - she was invited into that room, she has a right to be there. The others will have to put up with it. Tell her to walk in with her head held high and be friendly to all, but not seeking approval, if you see what I mean. Everyone will be so excited to be away i'm sure any niggles will be swept away in all the excitement anyway. I can remember having some very unexpected midnight conversations on trips away when groups had to join forces to fill all the beds. Tell her to join in conversations etc when she feels like it but that it's not the be all end all to make herself included all the time. Taking a back seat and just listening and observing is cool too! Pack her some nice treats to share and tell her to keep an eye out for the girl who included her in the first place - she seems like the natural ally. God help her - a lot of the "social activities" at work can feel the same (picking tables for events etc), so I do feel for her! I hope she has a great time x

I'm a bit surprised that the school are allowing the girls to effectively sort the bedroom thing themselves. Surely in every year there always more than one child whois not part of the "cool " set and who may be on the edge of friendship groups. I'd have thought the school should have some hand in making sure everyone is reasonably comfortable.

missing I COMPLETELY agree. I get that the school think they should be old enough to sort this themselves, but I don't think they've got the maturity to be kind and inclusive, plus it just encourages the cliquiness.

I think a school trip is a time to make new friendships and be with people you don't know very well.

No - she was invited into that room, she has a right to be there. The others will have to put up with it. Tell her to walk in with her head held high and be friendly to all, but not seeking approval, if you see what I mean. Everyone will be so excited to be away i'm sure any niggles will be swept away in all the excitement anyway

Whereas in principal I would agree, in the real world it could be rather nasty. It might be brilliant and they make friends, but on the other hand she could be very much on her own and having them clearly not want her.

I think it's worth mentioning to the teacher the issues. For a start off, it may make them think another time on a less cliquey way of doing it. Could they perhaps see another likeminded girl who also is edge of the groups that they could put them in together? And if there isn't they can at least keep an eye on the group and check that Op's dd isn't spending all her time curled in a corner keeping away from her dorm.

Dancer. I know exactly how you feel. My dd is in year 8 and has really struggled to make friends. The problem is when she does make one she hangs onto them for dear life which of course then makes them feel stifled and they are frightened off. A self fulfilling prophecy really.
She will not join any groups or after school clubs ( at least your dd has the confidence to do that) and is always frightened that if the one friend she has made should be absent for any reason then she will be completely on her own at school. She is not part of any friendship groups and nobody at all rings her, texts her or calls on her at weekends or in the school holidays if her friend is away as her father works abroad.

School have been very supportive but obviously can't make friends for her. She starts high school in September ( we still have a 3 tier system her) and I really fear she will be terribly lonely.

Sorry to hear about your dd eggs Will she be with the same girls at high school or will there be new people too?

I think a lot is down to luck. Finding someone you connect with. And also how much it bothers you. My oldest dd (at a different school) has a small group of friends, they know they're not the popular ones but they don't care, they have each other. They've had a few ups and downs over the years, but dd1 is much less bothered by it all. She does talk to her younger sister and encourages her to try and relax a bit and go with the flow, but dd2 is much more sensitive and takes it all to heart. You can't change your basic personality! I think dd2 wishes she didn't care as much as she does.

Sometimes kids get stuck in a class that just isn't right for them?
I agree with this. We've had this with dd. Once they are in a class that suits them (in dd's case when she moved to secondary) you realise it's not that your child was doing anything wrong, it's just that some classes have a weird dynamic. Even the teachers at dd's comp have commented that she has a lot of nice girls in her class. To be honest she deserves it after seven years of putting up with some of the kids in her primary class's behaviour towards her! Might a move to another class in the year help?

Dancer. You are right in that you can't change somebody's basic personality. When she started middle school she realised she wasn't going to fit into any of the friendship groups ( "populars" , "geeks" etc ) and would often come home crying. I definitely think her personality is more suited to having one good friend rather than being part of a group but it makes me sad when I see her peers going off to guides or other girls on the street calling for each other and nobody calls for her.
When she starts high school there will be an intake from all the local middle schools so hopefully there will be an opportunity to make new friends but my gut feeling tells me this will not be the case. Sadly.

hibiscus I think next year they mix up the forms. They have English, Science and PE with their forms, Maths is in sets and everything else depends on their GCSE subjects. I'm hoping it will be a fresh start for her.

eggs you never know what's round the corner. I think my dd would also suit having one close friend or a small group of 3 or 4 rather than a huge crowd. Your dd might be lucky and meet someone she clicks with. Hope things get better for her.

When my DD started GCSEs the dynamic changed. She found a different set of friends instead of feeling a bit left out because she had chased the unobtainable clique. The cliques get broken up and other girls become possible friends. Hold on until next year.

Regarding the trip. Go into the room. School trips are full on. They won't do much other then sleep in the room and a bit of socialising with other rooms no doubt. It is positive that a girl asked her into the room so don't shun the olive branch. It has been a while coming! She may find other girls are like minded out of school and she can be confident that things will improve and the residential does help with bonding. Take up the offer of the room and be positive.

I agree that she should stay in the room where she was invited. Anything else would be more awkward. Make sure she has some sweets/biscuits to share before bed in case they don't like the catering and enough toiletries to be able to offer some to anyone who may have forgotten theirs. It's nice to be in the position of offering a biscuit or some sunscreen.
Good luck!