number of GCSEs

[Nicola63]

Hi. This may seem like a stupid/obvious question to people who have grown up here/know the British school system. But I didn't, I grew up in South Africa and have only lived here as an adult. I have however recently jumped into the deep end by having my 13 year old stepdaughter come from S Africa to live with us and go to school here. So I am on a fast learning curve.

She now has to choose GCSE subjects. The school seems, in the letter they sent, to recommend doing about 7, although they say some people do 8 or 9. I am concerned about overburdening her; although she is pretty bright she has just come into the middle of Year 9 in a totally new country and of course has a lot to catch up on. Also I am keen that she keeps up with other things apart from schoolwork (she is doing Duke of Edinburgh award and keeps pretty busy).

What do other people recommend in terms of number of GCSEs? I have no idea what the real norm is.

Thanks very much.

I think 7-10 is about normally for most state schools now.

I did 10 GCSEs which was pretty normally for my year group (second year of GCSE) and got a reasonable level of choice, more than you get now anyway! I did an additional GCSE in first year od sixth form too.

The more I hear the more I think she needs to do at least 9 and possibly 10 (maybe the 10th being Dutch). She is not at a state school, and for the fees we pay I think they should be able to encourage and help her to do the amount she needs!

I'm sure 9-11 is fairly standard these days, without too much pressure.

Even 20 years ago at a fairly run-down comp, many of us did 11 'O' levels.

DD is doing
Maths (& Statistics which I think is an extra one)
Eng Lang
Eng Lit
Philosphy & Ethics (replaces RE)
Biology
Physics
Chemistry
German
French
History
Geography
ICT (half a GCSE? compulsory course)

Phew!

Juule, it is hard to demonstrate the breadth of your attainment in just 5 GCSEs. Also most schools will have some GCSEs which are compulsary (Maths and Eng Lang plus science say, though some schools prescribe up to 7 subjects). If you want to do certain subjects at A level then typcially you may need certain GCSEs as a prerequisite. Narrowing down to 5 subjects at GCSE does reduce options later on.

Sixth Form Colleges etc are looking for (say) 5 GCSEs at mimimum Grade B (or C) but would expect that students will have taken more. As virtually all the lessons in Y10 and Y11 are GCSE related - apart from PSE, RE, PE (may be others) most pupils will have taken the course for around 10 - though may not have been entered if their attainment is too low.

I can understand what you are saying regarding demonstrating a breadth of attainment but I still don't understand why that's necessary. Most courses that I've looked at ask for 5 GSCEs usually including maths and english and sometimes science. Those are compulsory anyway so why not just have 2 more compulsory, optional GCSEs for students who would be happy with that? More GCSEs than that could be optional for those who want to take them.

IME as a teacher of 6th form, students with bare minimum, eg 5 GCSE's tend to struggle at AS and A2.

Not always, but most of the time. A university will be looking for points, and I think GCSE's count for this. So the more GCSE's the higher the point score.

"students with bare minimum, eg 5 GCSE's tend to struggle at AS and A2."

But is that because they had to do 10 and only passed 5 (possibly due to the pressure of 10+) or because they were only entered for 5 as they lacked ability?

"So the more GCSE's the higher the point score."

I don't think this is always the case. If student is overloaded with the number of GCSEs they are having to take, some will get worse results due to the pressure. However, if they only had the required 5 to take they may sail through them with top grades.

But surely it's about breadth of knowledge and also interests.

My daughter is just taking her options now and would be devastated to be restricted to 5 or 7. She has so many interests and genuinely wants to know more about lots of subjects.

So if most children really can manage 9, 10 or 11 GCSEs without undue pressure, why not?

Like I said before, many of us managed the same 20 years ago when (according to the media anyway...) the courses were so much harder and so much more meaningful!

Juule, I think that fizzbuzz's point is that if students are only capable of doing 5 GCSEs, then they are probably not fully up to the demands of the AS and A2 courses (though of course there can be exceptions). And as she pointed out 5 GCSEs are usually the minimum requirement, not the preferred requirement.

I'm not saying that they should drop subjects, just maybe not have to take GCSEs in them all. There can be a lot of coursework involved in 10 or 11 GCSEs and some students do find it difficult to stay on top of so many different lots. Our experience is that each subject teacher applies pressure for the coursework for their own subject. In some cases to the point of telling the student to disregard coursework in another subject.

"So if most children really can manage 9, 10 or 11 GCSEs without undue pressure, why not?"

Perhaps you are right. However, some students feel overfaced with the prospect of the demands of so many subjects and can effectively just throw the towel in (even very able students). I am just trying to understand the point of taking so many subjects to GCSE.

So, is the point of doing so many GCSEs to test whether a student can withstand the rigours of A'levels study?

Okay I'm going now as it looks as though I've hijacked a bit. Apologies to op.

For whatever reason. If they were down to do 10, and only passed 5 then that would imply a lot of problems about organisation or time management. Or that they were just lazy.

If they had passed 5 they may find the intellectual jump from GCSE to AS level too high. I think the jump from GCSE to AS is the biggest jump at any time during the education process. This is in terms of organisation, time planning and intellectual content. I am only speaking about AS or A2. I have no experience in any other courses.

The more able a student, the better they cope with pressure and organisation, so will easily get 10 GCSE's. In ten years of teaching a lot of very high ability pupils, I have known hardly any fail due to pressure of sitting a lot of subjects. I have known less able students struggle with 9 or 10 GCSE's

Points are calculated on grades and amount og GCSE's. Eg 10 grade A GCSE's will make more points than 5 grade A GCSE's

No, it is not just to test whether they can stand up to the rigours of A level study. It is to give them as many options for future learning as possible, by giving an assessment of what they have achieved in certain subjects. Some pupils will switch to a vocational course at 16, where GCSEs will show future employers a level of literacy and numeracy and probably IT compentece; others will go onto A level and equivalent studies.

If you have to study subjects then surely you would want some assessment of your competence in those subjects in case you wanted to prove it in the future? I went to a school where we did RE GCSE in Year 10 but still had to have RE lessons in Year 11 as they were compulsary - now that was a waste of time (other than the first few which were lively debates).

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I don't think they do have the reputation of being easy. Practical based GCSE subjects have a very heavy coursework load, and are very testing in terms of organisation and comittment.

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The average in my daughters school is 10. My eldest did 11 as she took Maths a year early.

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I have really appreciated all the helpful replies, and dsd has read over them too. We think we are probably going to go for doing 9 at school, with the 10th being Dutch, which will have to be done as distance learning outside school. We still have to decide about this though. I would far prefer she does German rather than Dutch but she is not happy with that. We will be having discussions!

My daughter didn't have to take the maths GCSE early if she didn't want to. She was in set 1 for maths and they were given the poourtunity to take it early if she wanted to.
She was perfectly ready and able to do it and got an A