Is this racism?

[rattlesnake]

I have received notification of a "racist incident" involving my 12 y/o ds and another boy at school. According to the teacher who called me, DS called an Irish boy "Irish" quite a few times until it upset him and he in turn, reported DS. Apparently this was during a PE lesson / football match. DS maintains that they were both "annoying" each other with gibes of: "the English are gonna kill the Irish"..."the Irish are gonna kill the English" and so on. Apparently, DS didn't know when to shut up and the other pupil told the teacher he was upsetting him by calling him Irish. DS tried to explain that it was a two-way joke, but was still given isolation and a report sent home calling this an "incidence of racism". DH laughed his head off! I really want to go and talk about this! Is this indeed racism? Am I missing something?

It is indeed racism. The Irish were the vilified immigrants in 1950s/60s. The equality legislation is applicable to taunting based on country of origin. I suspect it was tit for tat but it would still be required to be recorded as a racist incident and your lad needs to learn when to stop.

Yes I also think you need to help him to undestand that taunting on the basis of where someone comes from is never a good idea. He may not have meant to be racist but the effect was the same.

Personally I think it's ridiculous! A telling-off here would have sufficed IMO. If he had used a derogatory term then ok! Plus the teacher should have listened to both sides. The school are constantly having sports matches, quiz nights where the girls v the boys! They aggregate each other.."boys win...girls in the bin" ! No one gets reported for sexism!

*agrevate

• aggravate..grrr

Without knowing the exact details of how it began it's hard to say whether they were both wrong.

The fact is the other lad was upset by it.

One of the most common things students say to me when questioned about rude/mean/bullying things they have done is that the other person was laughing or made the same joke back so it must have been ok?

Teach your son about reading other people more carefully. People often laugh along or appear to be 'bantering' back when they feel like they have no other option, or they don't want to cause a confrontation.

I see everyone's point. DS said he thought they were just having a laugh with each other. He know's full well that you do not make fun of someone because of race, ethnic origin etc. being mixed race himself. He maintains that it was harmless banter and that the other child was fully aware of this.

Racist incidents have to be formally recorded by the school and statistics reported to the LA, so they are treated differently to sexist incidents.

This would be xenophobic not racist surely?

The definition of racism used by schools is 'any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person.’

That definition is only a starting point though and is taken from the McPherson Report after the Stephen Lawrence murder. Each pupil should have been interviewed by a senior member of staff and your DS could have explained his version of events. He could and should have been asked to apologise. I think schools should not set up events where children shout out sexist or any discriminatory slogans to each other. That is poor. I do not think it is acceptable to allow taunting by girls and boys of each other in that way.

Regarding the Irish name calling: he did go too far when the boy was upset and he didn't see that calling him Irish was unacceptable. It is picking him out as being different which the boy did not like.

The definition given by noble allows schools to explore if the racism was unintentional. Your DS was also being taunted but saw no harm in it. He could have done if he did not see his background as English but Caribbean or African for example. The other problem with the bald definition and no proper investigation, is that it allows an aggrieved child to make the allegation but the other, silent, child, says nothing but is called a racist. That is why all children must be spoken to. If you want to complain, this is the only reasonable avenue you have, assuming it did not happen. You must, of course, explain to your child about racism. There are some good explanations on line to help you. The school needs to do more too and stop allowing children to taunt each other. That is not healthy.

I have had countless conversations with pupils who have upset another pupil with "harmless banter". The fact that is his response is a bit of a red flag, it is so often the defence of bullies. I would have a chat about knowing when to stop and that his intent is not always the same as the impact on the recipient.

All the racism I experienced as a child (in 70s and 80s) was apparently "harmless banter" and "I couldn't see a joke". I think it's a very positive thing that we have moved on from those days.

It is, but if a child and his Dad don't understand the problem, there needs to be a full explanation as well as punishment and it is good practice for both children to be interviewed. The other child was also name calling and being provocative (kill the English) and the OP's child responded too forcefully. Personally I do not think "kill the English" is acceptable either! I bet if a Muslim child said that, there would have been consequences!

I would imagine there were consequences for both and both sets of parents were contacted but it would be significantly unprofessional to discuss what happened to the other child to anyone other than their own parents.

So you think it's "ridiculous" and your husband "laughed his head off".

Brilliant.

My ds had this once. The child at the club kept calling him "you are xxx".
He isn't. He is as British/English as other child was, just mixed race, and my nationality isn't even xxx.
DS was totally puzzled, and kept saying "No, I am not."
I don't think he took it as a racist insult, but just annoying.
All the time, the parent sat right next to me said/did nothing and kept grinning.
I didn't do anything, but I felt it was definitely racist.

I think it was blown out of all proportion yes. They were both saying the exact same thing..in a football game ! I could take offence at the fact that a white teacher chose only to reprimand the "coloured" child..but I don't, because I can see clearly that this should not have been made into the fiasco that it has been! I think DH laughed because he grew up in Thatcher's Britain in the 80's, black, in an almost all white neighbourhood, knowing what real racism feels like.

I just wondered the incident I posted up thread, if that happened at school, and if my ds complained other child's behaviour as annoying, do teachers need to take it as racial, even if my ds was just annoyed by repetition and doesn't feel racial attack at all?

In nursery/preschool, my ds said some children said they weren't allowed to play with X and Y because they are brown. His school is 90+% white, so I do think some children can be raised by those parents.
But thing is, my ds thinks he is 100% English even he doesn't look like one, and he will be puzzled if small playground things become big deal, not just say sorry to each other and move on.

Yes it is.

Slightly alarmed that this isn't racist enough for your DH to be serious. In the 80s I wonder if he would've appreciated schools having zero tolerance for all racist incidents, even low-level, then he might not have experienced this "real racism".

I am white British and so have never experienced this sort of thing but I can imagine how this would feel and would put a rocket up my son's arse if he was heard saying this sort of thing.

I hope the other boy has been punished too and had "racist incident" marked on his file?

Also, football is particularly zero-tolerance on racism even at grassroots level so perhaps this is why it was picked up on the footie pitch.

This is racism. I would talk to your boy and that no name calling under any race or creed is acceptable. It just isn't. Your hubby should know this too. I'm sure he does. And then I would let this matter go, since lessons learnt and moved on.

They were both being xenophobic in an equal manner. But if it seriously was just the English are better than Irish/Irish better than English then I dread to think how people are meant to cheer on teams at World Cup matches in future?!