When parents are slagging off the local comp...

[Everyoneafter3]

I've posted before about my concerns over the local secondary, which, thanks to comments on this board and an excellent recent Ofsted, are very much allayed. I had a very good read of school newsletters etc and am much happier. Dd1 (Y4) is musically gifted and will also audition for a specialist music school.

The area in which we live is very affluent: many children round here go to fee-paying independent schools. These dc are going to school and telling my dd (and others) that the local secondary is rubbish ("my mum and dad say..."). One particularly stupid parent has said at home that "no child of mind will set foot in x school" which of course is coming back home with our dd.

Dd1 has now got it into her head that the local school is terrible, that she's really upset to go to not a good school, that she wishes we weren't poor (we're not! But no, we can't afford independent school fees without having to sacrifice other stuff we prioritise as a family). She's been researching exam results and all sorts.

For our part we've said well look at any local school she'd like to, although as we live across the road from the school in question it'd be unlikely that she'd get in.

I'm heartily sick of parents telling their dc how awful the local school is. It's simply not fair. My dc won't receive a 'lesser' education. They aren't going to a 'rubbish' school. If this continues I'm tempted to speak to their current primary school tbh. What else can I do? I've told dd to not listen, we've looked at the school website, talked about results (!) but I'm at a loss.

[Devilishpyjamas]

And yes mrswhitewash - that is outrageously rude. What is wrong with people?

[GetAHaircutCarl]

Well bert does it seem very likely that 8 year olds are endlessly talking about this? That it's all terribly more important to them than Pokemon or Moana?

Of course if you're anxious as the OP has been, then this is bound to make her more alive to potential criticism. That's human nature. It will have also no doubt have transferred itself to the DD ( because I've never heard of any 8 year old researching GCSE results. How would they even know what they're looking for?)

All that being said, I do believe that we parents need to bring up our DC to deal with this stuff.
What someone else who doesn't know the minutiae of our lives, thinks of a school is small fry. The need to have everyone agree with what we do is very damaging.

[BertrandRussell]

I rest my case,

[GetAHaircutCarl]

There's no case to rest bert.
That's just something silly that non lawyers say.

[Devilishpyjamas]

Well ds3 who wasn't anxious about his school choice at all reported back that they were talking about it (see my post) so.......

[babyinarms]

I hate this kind of behaviour. My ds is starting secondary school this Sept. My dh and myself have made a very informed decision regarding the secondary school he will be attending. It's not the 'normal' choice for this particular primary school. I'm not reflecting on the primary school ( they have been amazing to ds), it's a reflection of the parents and their snobbery attitude!
They usually say, 'so your ds is going to x school in sept'. My reply is ' no he's going to y school'
To which I get a very annoying ' ah well that's much closer to you isn't it? ' or ' ah sure that's a good school too' , but the undertone is, 'but not for my ds ', iykwim.
Now the schools are a 5 minute walk from each other, so no, distance wasnt a deciding factor !
I usually just say ' I prefer the subject choice, I was very impressed with the principals goals/ ethics and that I feel my ds will come on better in this particular setting. I also usually comment, that all kids are different and their needs are not the same.
I hate that they presume ' it's distance' has made up our minds, that we possibly couldn't have picked this school for any other reason! We've put a lot of research into this and it wasn't a light hearted decision and decided not to just follow tradition and send him to x school just because it's always been that way. Thankfully 5 of his classmates are joining him, so that helps him ( there's only 20 in the class). That's a real tradition breaker, as usually only 1 or 2 students go to this school . It shows people are researching more and going by their child's own needs, not what's expected of them, that can only be a good thing !
Ive always pointed out the positives of each school to ds but emphasised that y school is more suited to him for various reasons and explain I like their ethos ! He was resistant at the start but now he's more than happy as he knows we are doing this for him and we have his best interest at heart.
We have no gaurantees ( just like anyone else) that'll work out, but we know he has a better chance in this setting.
Sorry for ranting on but I just hate snobbery, especially around education.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

I didn't say DC don't talk about it. Just that it's highly unlikely to be subject of the day, consistently for 8 year olds.

[HamletsSister]

I am not sure what information you have and my information may not be true of high performing comps. But I have seen, first hand, the way in which Universities are increasingly looking beyond the surface to see the whole pupil.

Another friend of DS has an offer well below the usual from StAndrews.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

Contextual offers are generally quite nuanced. And universities have their own algorithms. There is no agreed approach.
The school an applicant attended would usually be only one factor to be taken into account.

Contextual offers are part of an ongoing effort to widen participation in HE. And it has had some pleasing success.

[Devilishpyjamas]

True - re subject of the day, but it doesn't have to be to have an impact.

Interestingly it was far more of a topic of conversation in ds3's year (loads of professional parents) vs ds2's year (lots of family business owners who were far less angsty about education), so I think parental conversations at home must impact massively.

[smellyboot]

This happens a lot in our area. Local high schools are brilliant but much snobbery about Indy and grammars. Its so sad that year 4/5/6 girls bitch about who is going where :(

[MaisyPops]

GetAHaircutCarl
From uni admissions visits to our school the general take is that someone getting AAA and is well rounded from state sector is probably a better candidate than AAA* from private in terms of resilience and aptitude.

Or as someone once said to me private tends to elevate the middle to look like they're the top. So kids can gets As private who if they had to be independent in state may only have got Bs. In terms of who is the better candidate the hardworking one from state who hasnt had tiny class sizes and all the extras is probably better prepared for uni.

Its also why state schools can go on uni summer schools and get reduced offers if they impress.

People claim theres no difference between state and private, but if thats the case then why would people spend thousands on it?

[GetAHaircutCarl]

maisy which university rep actually said that?

[MaisyPops]

Look at the sutton trust summer schools and it tells you how they want to widen participation etc. There's set critieria e.g. first in family to go to uni, school with historically low rates of higher education etc.

We've had a lot of the northern ones in and thats the main message. They dont just look at grades when deciding who to admit. They dont just give stupidly low offers or anything but its wrong to suggest that an A from a child from a disadvantaged background and an A from a child qho's been tutored and gone through private are the same. They're not. It's why there's funding for pupil premium students etc, why teach first exists etc because it's not a level playing field and it would be daft to say it is.

The private elevating the middle is something friends with kids in secondary private schools have said. Backed up by friends who've worked in that sector. Sibling was educated private and had class groups of 15 etc. They openly admit they only got some of their As because they haf loads of attention and extra stuff put on for them.

[MaisyPops]

What you've got to think about is if there's no benefit in sending children private because it's just the same as state (and its not fair to consider context when applying to uni), then why on earth would anyone pay that kind of money?

Even if you look between state schools, some unis locally do more work with certain schools than others. The reason is to widen participation because some state schools in my area do get a reasonable amount of kids into uni and others next to none get in. The contexts of those schools are different, which is why they get different links with colleges and unis.

[BertrandRussell]

"From uni admissions visits to our school the general take is that someone getting AAA and is well rounded from state sector is probably a better candidate than AA*A from private in terms of resilience and aptitude."

Did they define "well rounded"?

[MaisyPops]

Well rounded can look like many different things. Eg sport teams, school council, hobbies, music, drama etc. A number of more disadvantaged kids Ive worked with have also done army cadets too.

But got to remember that disadvantaged kids may not have as much on their 'list' as those who've got more comfortable upbringings.
I can just hear the cries of 'my timmy does hockey, skiing, drama and scouts how can it possibly be fair that someone who does dance at school and the yearly production is classed as rounded'.

What admissions told our students they are after is that they know why they want to study their subject, that they are well rounded and have the potential to acheieve well at their uni.

Its soul destroying helping kids write UCAS applications when they're saying things like 'x course wants relevant work experience but I'm on 4As and still cant get any.' And you know that when you were at school the person who had contacts was there doing hospital/law/dentistry work experience that.
Unis have to try to spot potential that goes beyond what mammy and daddy can afford. The thing on MN is that people dont like that idea when theyre tutoring kids for the 4+ exam and hothousing them in endless clubs.

[BertrandRussell]

"Well rounded can look like many different things. Eg sport teams, school council, hobbies, music, drama etc. A number of more disadvantaged kids Ive worked with have also done army cadets too."

Ah. All those things that actually carry no weight with admissions tutors at all. Unless, of course, they are directly relevant to the course being applied for.

[GetAHaircutCarl]

maisy you seem to be conflating several different issues here.

The fact is that I am astounded that any representative from a reputable university said they are seeking state school pupils because these applicants are better able to cope at university, that they are looking for 'well rounded' applicants etc

Not least because there is no evidence to support the former ( please don't anyone link to the long discredited report widely lauded in the Guardian) and no desire for the later.

Nor do they give out contextual offers routinely based solely on schooling.
So I would be surprised if anyone said they did.

Universities are of course seeking to widen participation and a lot of good work has been done, but that doesn't amount to what you've said really.

[user7214743615]

What admissions told our students they are after is that they know why they want to study their subject, that they are well rounded and have the potential to acheieve well at their uni.

Back in the real world, the vast majority of university courses take anyone with the required grades (which are in many cases several grades below the published offer grades).

They dont just look at grades when deciding who to admit.

They really do, outside the small fraction of courses (Oxbridge, medicine etc) which can select from candidates who all have the required grades.

[BoboChic]

user3615 - I am generally in agreement with you that required grades are pretty much all that university courses require, but I have been quite surprised this year at the outcomes of some of my applicants at universities (Bath, Durham, Exeter, Warwick) where PS/reference have clearly played a major role in determining who did and didn't get offers.

[BertrandRussell]

"where PS/reference have clearly played a major role in determining who did and didn't get offers."

How do you know?

[BoboChic]

Because I've seen the whole lot, Bertrand.

[BertrandRussell]

And are you also privy to the decision making process?

Actually,if I remember correctly, doesn't your business depend on people believing personal statements make a huge difference to outcomes?

[cowgirlsareforever]

Do you makemoney writing personal statements Bobochic? I usually help a few people every year with them and I do it for nothing. I wouldn't dream of ever charging to help a young person out.