Disruption in class

[gtimama]

D1 14, told me that in English lesson today the teacher sent 13 children out 1 after the other. She is a new teacher to the school. I spoke to her at the recent parent evening and I think she is either from Australia or New Zealand and she told me at the time that when she started at the school she was apalled by the childrens behaviour. She said she had never experienced anything like it. She said that she was shocked at the level of hatred she felt from them. I told her that I admired teachers and that I could not do their job in a million years, I would want to murder the lot of them.

However today I have been annoyed, because english is in fact my daughters best subject and she told me that after all the disruption there was only 20 mins of the lesson left and the teacher sat at the back of the class and told the rest of the children to do whatever they wanted.

What should or could I do about this, because it is not fair on my daughter if this teacher cannot control the class and teach.

How new is she? Is it a particularly bad group of kids? Will they have more respect for this teacher or just think it's a hoot to be chucked out? I would think it would be wonderful for a teacher to have the right to refuse to teach kids who don't behave, and just think how much more attention your dd would get? Realise that's not very practical though!!! Can you talk to other parents to find out their views, have a quiet word with the form teacher before deciding what to do?

My dd 10 was in a horrific class (15 boys & 5 girls) last year, none of the teachers could control the ringleaders. After I heard that one of the boys had climbed a tree in break and peed on another I contacted the pta - the parents had a meeting with the school I and other parents were prepared to remove our kids from the school if necessary. The school took the worst 5 (all boys) out of the class, separated them into other classes and added more girls in their place. This year is a million times better.

This is not the same problem as yours I know, hope you get yours sorted.

This is a major problem in secondary schools. My younger son (at a "good" local school) has experienced it all through his time there and it has really got him down. I would speak to the Head of Year about the problem, but don't hold your hopes!

It sounds awful

I would contact the school, being concerned, see if they are aware of it? I know nothing because my dc are not at that age yet, although I do remember disruptive classes from my youth, esp at the bigger schools I attended.

Just phoned school and waiting for Head of English to give me a call back.

I do feel for the teacher, cos there is no way I could do her job. It must be absolutely sole destroying to try and teach a lot of unruly kids who do not want to learn. (My own daughter is no angel). I'm not a 'My darling little prescious' type mother. However, as I said before English is about the only lesson that she is good at and that she enjoys and it doesn't seem fair that because the teacher is struggling with the class, the kids that are not being unruly end up with no lesson!

OK, here's the thing, I'm an experienced teacher of just above that level.

If the teacher is new, the class are probably pushing the boundries to see just how far they can go. That poor woman is in the firing line of some pretty determined stroppy teenagers. It's really important for new teachers when put into that position not to back down as it will set the tone for how the students behave for the rest of the year. What probably happened in that lesson was the culmination of a protracted campaign by some of the students. Believe it or not, what she was doing actually was controlling the class, i.e. refusing to allow unacceptable behaviour in the classroom.

The fact that your daughter was not thrown out is actually a really positive thing. She was behaving herself. Hold onto that thought. I would ask the head of English just what they expect to do with the miscreants. Are they going to be punished or excluded? (I'd lay money on the last one not happening) What are they going to do to support the teacher so the students who really want to learn i.e. your daughter, are allowed to get on with their work?

All of us who teach will be able to tell tales of days like that. I've sometimes been left with just a handful in a class. Some students will try and try to disrupt a class, it's far more fun winding a teacher up than doing any actual work. The problem is that with targets and league tables, many schools are reluctant to be seen to be having a problem with behaviour. They do not exclude and they do not suspend students. It ends up on their records and affects their place in the leage tables. This causes a massive problem with behaviour over all as students can and do get away with the most appaling behaviour.

If you don't believe me, read this this or this .

It makes depressing reading.

Yes, I have been teaching years, and had one class from hell about 2 years ago. Used to have to evict 7 or 8 every lesson, as this was the only way the rest of the class could get anything done, and also the only way I could survive. They were horrendous.

I really understand your concern that the teacher sat at the back of the lesson, BUT TBH she sounds exhausted and I have had to do similar things in that situation, although haven't told them to do what they want, but have set peaceful quiet tasks

I would contact Head of English and ask if some of class can be moved into other groups. It is not fair that your daughter's education should suffer, but some pupils are just beyond control of anyone.

It sounds like the school is the problem more than the teacher tbh

Slug - you are so right. Yet again league tables and targets getting in the way of education. I feel so sorry for teachers in these situations;we expect them to teach and keep discipline without supporting them when they want to exclude children. This might sound reactionary ( well it does )but I sometimes wish that schools could simply have some sort of '' 3 strikes -you are out'' approach to disruptive behaviour so the well-behaved can be allowed to learn in peace !!! On a slightly separate note, in France they employ people specifically to deal with discipline issues so that the teachers can simply get on and teach.

Wish i lived in France........ What pisses me off is the majority of kids actually want to learn, but if there is one or two disruptive ones in a lesson, you spend all your time with them, and the rest suffer. It's really not fair on them.

Slug, those links are deeply shocking.

I know about bad behaviour, my organisation runs courses with yp referred by the YOT. What is so shocking is the cynicism in dealing with it.

Every member of any government should learn those 5 lies by heart before ever being allowed to issue more bureacratic guff for teachers to wade through.

gitmama - sympathhies - I hope you get some satisaction from the Head of English.

She is being failed by the school herself IMO. When I started teaching I had a few problems with a couple of classes and the HOD and HOYs concerned came down like a ton of bricks. I got loads of support, and the problems were quickly resolved. Well, of course there were still some hard-core offenders, but you can deal with the odd one or two. Half the class is utterly shocking. Where did they get sent to? The school needs to take pretty strong action to deal with this,otherwise it will become (stay?) one of those classes that are notorious for poor behaviour. And they are very difficult to turn around.

gtimama, it sounds so depressing. Discipline levels seem to have got to the stage where nothing can actually be taught in some schools, it is just crowd management. I agree that you can't blame the teacher in most circumstances - would any of us be prepared to deal with that sort of thing on a day to day basis?

slug - i was very shocked by the links. Had no idea just how bad things were in some schools. I wonder how long it can be before they are forced to have some kind of armed force present to protect the staff?

Spoke to Head of English this afternoon. She was very good. I reiterated that I was in no way blaming the teacher, as such, because like I said before I really do admire them. There is no way on earth I could do their job. I find it difficult coping with one 14 year old let alone a class of 30 odd.

She listened to my concerns and put my mind at rest. The children that were sent out of class were in fact sent to her. She agreed that it has now got to the stage where these childrens parents are to be called into school. Hopefully they will be responsible parents and support the teachers in disciplining their children! (Not always the case, I know).

My daughter has an appointment with her in the morning so that she can look at her work and see if she could possibly move groups. She is new to the school, (last September) so they have not really had a chance to ascertain her capabilities, what with the change of teacher. The one that left was beginning to recognise that she had a flair for english as she published a short story of hers in the school newspaper.

Anyway thanks for your comments. Hopefully it will all work out.

Slug

Just read some of those links. Absolutely disgusted, but unfortunately not suprised. I'm a single mum of a 14 year old and twin 8 year old girls. When I was at school, I'm 45 now, there were some kids who behaved apallingly in class, but nowhere near like they do now and it makes me very afraid.

I remember my 14 year old starting secondary school at the age of 11. She went in their very nervous. For about 2 months she did ok behaviour wise, then she got detention. She was mortified and worried about it. That night she came home and I said "How was detention?" "It was great" she said. I was shocked and asked her what she meant. Apparently the teacher came into the classroom, told them what they had to do, put the radio on and left the room. When he returned he chatted with them and then let them go early. From that moment on she was no longer afraid of detention and got many more.

What is the answer, I don't know.

Unfortunately my daughter joined the ranks of the horrible kids that swear at teachers a couple of weeks ago. She was apparently using her mobile in class to take pictures of her friends! She had it confiscated and she lost her temper and told the teacher to F Off. I got a call from the school because she had not taken her planner in for them to let me know that she would be having detention the next day. When she returned from school that afternoon she walked into a very frosty atmosphere. I took her phone from her for a week. She was grounded and banned from using the computer for a week. She was sent to bed at 7.30 every evening for a week. I made her write a letter of apology to the teacher.

I don't know what else to do. She hasn't been in trouble since, but I expect she will be. She does not use that language at home. She wouldn't dare, but apparently feels ok about using it in school.

Discipline is hard these days. So much restriction. I used to be afraid of my fathers rath and that was enough to keep me on the straight and narrow. Unfortunatley that fear is no longer there.

I'm also a teacher, and I have had the odd 'class from hell'. If teachers are honest they will all tell you the same.

What is needed a a good, consistant dicipline policy in the school, so that the kids know exactly what sort of behavior is requited, and that poor behavior is not tolerated.

By and large the kids I teach are well behaved, because the school policy is good. And also because the parebts also dicipline their kids in a good, consistant way and back upt the school, in the way that gtimama so excellently shoed in the last post.

However we have some parents who have little on no idea of how to deal with their own kids. These are very often the parents who will simply not belive that they children could ever misbehave. Not surprisingly these are the kids who play up at school !

The following are real examples, a parent complained when their child was excluded for pulling a knofe on another. the parent said that we should have realised the child didn't mean to use it!

A parent complained ver an exclusion of a child. Said child had beaten up another, and it had taken 2 adults to pull the child off. Mother said that her child had a right to 'self defence' icnoring the fact that the kid and started it.

Parnet complained that we over reacted when her son was punished for pulling down the trousers of a girl in the middle of the school.. THese were both 13 year olds!

And this is why the kids play up, because of inconsistant dicipline.

And the minute they feel they can get away with it, they will try it on. It is a constant battle with some kids

The thing is that once you've sent out 13 kids, that's a fairly critical mass. The half of the class left are going to be feeling fairly negative about their experience in that lesson.

To be honest, this happens with depressing reularity at the school where I teach (well thought of, over subscribed, above average market town comp).

We have an ethos amongst students that they will do their absolute damnedest to take apart any new member of staff. It's not just disaffected or low ability kids. When I was on ML last year, it was my top set Year 11 who saw off my promising replacement in 3 weeks flat. Total own goal: they ended up with a succession of appalling supply teachers.

The only way to combat it is for new teachers to be eased in by experienced departmental colleagues - if the kids feel that they will be jumped on from an almighty height the SECOND they play new Ms X up, they generally don't.

It sounds like your d1's teacher's Head of Dept is being actively supportive...so hopefully things will settle down!