Would you/have you started going to church to get child into a good church school?!

[Bomper]

My ds should pass his 11+, but I am not 100% confident he will. The comprehensive schools in my area are pretty awful, except one, which is a C of E school. Lots of parents have now started to go to church in order to be able to apply, and I am being urged to do the same. Most of me thinks - 'this is my childs future, I will do whatever it takes', but a small part feels guilty. WWYD?

I don't know of any statistics, but amongst people I know, nearly all the Christian ones have left wing/labour views, or at least they did until they got an actively Christian prime minister who built relationships with other world leaders who were committed Christians, like err George Bush.

I said ' end of' ,unquiet dad because this thread has as usual descended into abuse and offensiveness , like your comment about people taking communion - which is actually a very holy and meaningful experience - and dominiconnor's earlier comment about ' all religious people being mentally ill'.

Similar comments applied to Jews or Muslims would be deleted but it's clearly ok to slag off Christians.

Anyway since you asked my dd loves sunday school , church and her CofE school which her sister will now automatically get into. Their religious interests and feelings will be nurtured and explored, not belittled or scorned as they would do on.

Which I have no problem with at all.

'as they would do on mumsnet'.

Donnie you should hardly be suprised. We live in such an intolerant society the Christians were bound to be next.

That's interesting dc because the C of E has always been known as "the Conservative Party at prayer"

Perhaps you are referring to RC ?

Duke of Norfolk? Catholic. Mind you he might be left wing for all I know. In areas of shortage of pupils religious requirements for entry are lax. In some areas the church schools are the best and in demand and then it's harder to get in so theyneed to look at things like mass attendance, contribution to the church and interview the parent and child.

I don't know what a fairer system is. Perhaps abolish state schools and give everyone a voucher. Or abolish state funding for religious state schools. Or reintroduce grammar schools around the UK.

Yes the Duke of Norfolk (seat Arundel Castle)is Roman Catholic, don't see what point you're making Xenia?

Also, C of E is catholic, just not Roman Catholic (ie we don't follow the Pope)

Yes, the Conservative party used to be strongly CoE, and vice versa. That's because the Labour and Liberal parties did stuff like legalise divorce, allow women the vote, stop putting gays in prison, and allowing these nasty coloured people into the country.

The Labour party now of course has a strongly Christian leader, and has an agenda to the right of not only every right wing party in europe, but to the right of parties that think of themselves as right.
The tipping point was when ultra right wing tory Michael Howard found himself attacking Labour policy as inhumane. This was after immigration thugs had killed a black woman whilst throwing her out of the country, and had adopted a policy of using force to separate illegal immigrant children from their leally here parents.

When Michael ("something of the night") Howard says you've gone too far, be afraid...

You might if you join us, CAM. I think a take over dressed up as a merger was mooted recently. I'd quite like to get back the Catholic lands that were robbed from us too may be with an apology as well just like we're giving for slavery etc.

What a bonkers post Xenia

i agree with DominiConnor's last post!

[faints!]

donnie, you've surely got to be able to take a joke. Most Christians I know can, and most atheists have to put up with quite a lot of ribbing too.

I'm glad your children enjoy Sunday school. I'm interested in the idea that they have "religious interests and feelings". How old are they, and where do these come from?

I don't think any schools should be faith schools.

Extra lessons about faith at should be taught at home/church/mosque/synagogue and be part of family life.

schools have enough to teach with the curriculum without weekly visits to a place of worship - that can happen outside of school time. RE classes are great and should teach about all faiths.

also, faith schools should not receive state funding - it is ridiculous. there are so many religions now in the uk that it is impractical to have schools for them all.

our local catholic girls school is funded partly by the state but does not accept non-catholics - how can that be appropriate?

If you go back to when we set up state schools in the 1800s(?) part of the aim was to ensure the children of the poor took on the Christian faith (C of E). That's just continued. Religion I think for years was the one subject you HAD to each in school (before the nat curr). Secular state schooling in US and France etc is the opposite and prohibits religious teaching with state funding.

That's because they don't have a monarchy

Does/should that make a difference? Yes, I know the Queen is the head of State and the head of the Church, but I can't see how that automatically equates to faith schools being state schools. If we were a Republic would we be more likely to be a secular state? I don't necessarily want that - I don't want to abolish churches.

I ahve to admit I am basing my assumptions on Christainity and politics on Romana Catholics as they are the circles I move in and I know very feew Roman Catholics who vote or at least admit to voting tory.

INterestingly our local C ofE vicars son is standing as a tory councillor but he is a very underhand deeply unprinicpled man.

CAM everybody chooses the parts of a religion thats suit them and I think this especially applies to Christianity which has descended into a pick and mix faith.

For example how many of us think that we should give away all our money so we can enter the kingdom of heaven? How many of us believe thatdivorce is wrong unless it is a amn divorcing his unfaithful wife? How many of us think that sex only belongs within marriage?

Referring back to DC people must select parts of the religion which suit them the mostif myself, the pope,Tony Blair and George Bush all believe in the same religion.

Donnie to you and me communion is a moving spirtual expereince but to outsiders it is a bizzare ritual open to jokes and I think we have to be tolerant of that. People only offend me if I let them.

Am agreeeing with Dc again, (stranger things have happened , at the moment I can't think of them) I would imagine the things that attarct right wing people to Christianity are probably the parts of Christianity that more leftie folk like myself struggle with such as an intolerance for homsexuality and divorce.

Xenia religion is the one subject thatstill has to be taught in schools unless you have religious grouds for removing yourself from the subject. This law is not always adhered to and is often referred to in OFSTED reports.

Twinset, I agree about the pick & mix, one effect of RE teaching seems to be people including bits of other religions. A lot of "spiritual" people label themselves Christian, but believe in reincarnation.
They may be right, but reincarantion is not Christian doctrine.

I thought this website had moderators!! If so, why then is it OK for some people (eg Unquiet Dad) to continue to make unchecked offensive comments about others on account of their religious beliefs?? I just don't understand how people like him can insult others in such a way but have absolutely no conscience about it, just because they're so sure they're right, which in itself is extreme arrogance. It's not as though Christianity and other religions haven't been around for thousands of years, with millions upon millions of adherents, including many very good people (and obviously, due to fallen human nature, also some atrocious dictators who have acted in the name of religion). Just why is he so vehemently opposed to religion, I wonder, and blind to any words of reason from anyone else? I object in the strongest terms.

I fear you are confused...
I'm the one who refers to religion as hysterical superstition. Unquietdad simply doesn't want his kids told that various Bronze age myths are true, and doesn't like discrimination on the grounds of race. I see very little "offence" to be gained from his last posts.

But as for personal remarks, why is that we are supposed to avoid "offending" religious people ?
Are you that insecure ?
If you insulted a hero of mine like Richard Feynman would I cry *OFFENSIVE !", and demand your posts were deleted ?

Here's a little puzzle for you.
Try to explain why religion, should uniquely be shielded from any criticism ?
Just to make it interesting, try to do it without making veiled threats of violence that "some people" might use force if they are offended....

yes DCit amuses me when I read the kids work how many of them muddle up beliefs, so they say they believe in Jesus, think theyare a Christian an belive in reincarnation.

I am teaching about reincarnation at the moment, it does seem very popular with kids.