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Secondary education

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Original poster

Tories pour millions into new grammars while state schools discuss the possibility of a 4 day week

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 07/03/2017 08:21

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/theresa-may-unveils-plans-new-generation-grammar-schools/

In a cowardly move, the Tories are publishing their White Paper on grammars before publishing the responses to the Green Paper which, the best thing Justine Greening could say about them was that they were 'not overwhelmingly negative'.

What a bunch of fucking shite. And where are they going to get the thousands of pounds required for free transport for golden ticket poor kids? The only potential money-saver here is that we know that the vast majority of poor kids don't get into grammars. Hmm Why not save this money and put it into the school that the poor kid would be going to originally? Then everyone would win, including the poor kid who isn't faced with a long commute, the poor kid who didn't get into the grammar, and the 90% of kids who aren't 'grammar material' (decided by a faulty test which puts kids in the wrong school aged 10) who would see more investment in their education which is desperately needed at the moment.

OP posts:
GreenGinger2 · 10/03/2017 20:50

How does that work when they're in different sets?

BertrandRussell · 10/03/2017 20:51

He is unlikely to get a 7. But you would have to have been under a rock to know that in the recent "official" mocks very many children from schools of all types performed very differently to expectations,

Clavinova · 10/03/2017 21:01

Bert
You should hypnotise the head teacher review panel and the appeal panel as well then - tis a mystery.

BertrandRussell · 10/03/2017 21:10

Clavinova- I can't remember what his scores were but it would have been outrageous if he had won the appeal. That's why it's him needs hypnotising!

Thegruffalowswife · 10/03/2017 21:10

If a child WANTs to succeed then they will do so anywhere, but it is easy to lose a child's attention if you are not providing them with an education that suits them.

That is why I approve of grammar schools. I also approve of transport to those grammar schools for childeren who live further than they can walk (as their parents may not be car owners). The less academic childeren should have more practical orientated classes including business skills.

The reason I say this is that my hubbys family are less academic, but still well off due to using their practical trades and skills along with their business acumen to provide them with great opportunities (and plenty of money). There should always be an option to learn business skills whichever school you go to.

We need all types of people to make the world go round, but there is room for making things more interesting for them by tailoring education to suit them.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 10/03/2017 21:21

God no a level 6 kid in maths shouldn't be automatically predicted a 9. A much higher percentage of kids get a level 6 in maths at KS2 than will be awarded a 9.

OP posts:
GreenGinger2 · 10/03/2017 21:23

9 is supposed to be G&T.

eddiemairswife · 10/03/2017 21:26

The fact that a child gets Level 6 in SATS is irrelevant in an appeal, because appeals are heard before the SATs results are out.

GreenGinger2 · 10/03/2017 21:26

And a 9 will make a difference. It will pick out the gifted in subject areas.

Kids aren't going to get strings of 9s like they got strings of A*s. I thought that was the whole point of the new GCSE.

Thegruffalowswife · 10/03/2017 21:27

For the record, we are not poor, but we would be in the south east of England ( working poor).
We live in a very nice pocket of one of the most deprived areas of scotland. The school try, but yes my daughter feels held back sometimes as attendance is so bad that the school go over and over the same things again for the kids who are never in. Until they grouped the classes more extensively my daughter said she couldnt hear or learn anything for aprox 3 years because of the behaviour in class, so she learned by herself from textbooks (which we bought for her) at home.
It is hopeless for the ones that are even moderately interested.
It is not a good outlook for the childeren who go there at all and it is frustrating for the people who do want to do well.
It is not the fault of the childeren who are living in poverty who do not ALL understand the benefits of education (some do-like my parents both did), but it is the fault of the government who refuse to help the ones who do and refuse to address the poverty issues in the area I live (because all they care about is independence).

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 10/03/2017 21:28

9 is supposed to be G&T.

'G&T' is a totally meaningless phrase, but in all my reading about grade 9s, I've never seen that label attached to it.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 10/03/2017 21:29

"And a 9 will make a difference. It will pick out the gifted in subject areas"

But what actual difference will it make?

GreenGinger2 · 10/03/2017 21:31

So what students are supposed to get 9s then?

MumTryingHerBest · 10/03/2017 21:33

noblegiraffe God no a level 6 kid in maths shouldn't be automatically predicted a 9

2% level 9? L6 = Level 9. Do did only 2% get L6?

If the pro-grammars on this thread are correct then all DCs attending comps should get contextualised offers. After all, only Grammar Schools can fulfil the needs of top ability DCs.

MumTryingHerBest · 10/03/2017 21:36

GreenGinger2 So what students are supposed to get 9s then?

Only DCs at Grammar schools, it would appear. After all comps. can't fulfil the needs of high ability DCs.

MumTryingHerBest · 10/03/2017 21:37

Thegruffalowswife Fri 10-Mar-17 21:27:53 We live in a very nice pocket of one of the most deprived areas of scotland.

Are there Grammar Schools in Scotland?

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 10/03/2017 21:39

"Gifted and Talented’ is the terminology adopted by the Department for Children, Schools and Families (DCSF) to describe a range of 5% to 10% of pupils in each school"

This obviously depends on the kids in each school.

Grade 9:
"Percentage of those achieving at least grade 7 who should be awarded grade 9 = 7% + 0.5 × (percentage of candidates awarded grade 7 or above)."

This will depend on the profile of the cohort taking each individual subject. For maths it is projected to be about 3.7% of the total.

OP posts:
roundaboutthetown · 10/03/2017 21:41

GCSEs really don't test for genius, giftedness or genuine talent. The marking system simply doesn't allow for it. You have to know the marking scheme and what the "expected" answer is, not come up with anything too radical or intelligent for the marker to deal with... GCSEs are mainly a test of memory, preparation, timing and keeping your nerve under pressure, and must not be too complicated and expensive a test to administer on a massive scale.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 10/03/2017 21:41

I think about 10% of kids get a level 6 in KS2 maths, and it's not compulsory to enter.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 10/03/2017 21:42

Top 2% level 9.

Which is why I said that ds would like a 9 but isn't going to get one. 7 is realistic, 8 aspirational. But because he isn't at a grammar school he has no aspirations he will probably get a 4. Which, coincidentally is what the highly academic grammar 6th form he wants to go to asks in maths for non mathematicians/scientists.

BertrandRussell · 10/03/2017 21:44

I think it was something like 15% got a level 6 in maths when ds did it.