Tories pour millions into new grammars while state schools discuss the possibility of a 4 day week

[noblegiraffe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/theresa-may-unveils-plans-new-generation-grammar-schools/

In a cowardly move, the Tories are publishing their White Paper on grammars before publishing the responses to the Green Paper which, the best thing Justine Greening could say about them was that they were 'not overwhelmingly negative'.

What a bunch of fucking shite. And where are they going to get the thousands of pounds required for free transport for golden ticket poor kids? The only potential money-saver here is that we know that the vast majority of poor kids don't get into grammars. Why not save this money and put it into the school that the poor kid would be going to originally? Then everyone would win, including the poor kid who isn't faced with a long commute, the poor kid who didn't get into the grammar, and the 90% of kids who aren't 'grammar material' (decided by a faulty test which puts kids in the wrong school aged 10) who would see more investment in their education which is desperately needed at the moment.

Clavinova Except that at least the kids in Oxford Academy have not been told they are in that school because they failed a test. They are in that school because they live nearby.

The chances of one of the 10 High Achievers at Oxford Spires getting in to the new Oxford Grammar and beating out the legions who would otherwise have gone to Oxford High and MCS seem err... remote. And last year Oxford Spires got its first students into Oxbridge.

THat Oxford Spires school ....
48% of kids have English as a second language
www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136261?tab=absence-and-pupil-population
those results are AMAZING

That can be cured by having enough school places , well designed catchments and good pupil premium.
I haven't heard any politician on either side of the house suggesting we can do any of that.
Evidence please. And define "bog standard" - name a school
I only have my own experience and what everyone I know has told me.

Dividing the existing resources between more schools will not help that

How else do you create more school places?
Its not a party political issue. Its a case of allowing LEAs to provide enough places for the kids who need them So why haven't they done it?

*why do you think you need separate schools to do that?
I don't, but it seems to be the only option on the table for very able children.
London as a source of inspiration
Its definitely something to aim for if only we had the money to do it over the whole country.

I have colleagues with kids at Oxford Spires. Bit Marmite - one loves it, the other had the Head talk her daughter out of the Beauty Therapy course she wanted to do in favour of A-Levels - said she was "too bright" to do Beauty Therapy. The daughter dropped out of Sixth Form. Interesting that if daughter had persevered and done well in A-Levels this could be a massive success story of "raising aspirations"!!

"I don't think it is possible to convince people from opposite camps really".

"I found it quite easy to convince my DH. I showed him the evidence that grammar schools were stuffed with the tutored kids of the better-off, instead of being the bastions of social mobility as advertised. Then he talked to a friend about the total awfulness of the 11+ process, the huge amount of pressure to tutor from a young age and the vast amount of money the tutoring industry makes out of a totally unnecessary process."

I think it is unreasonable to suggest that grammar schools are stuffed with "tutored kids". If grammar schools were a thing where I live, my daughter would almost definately have met the criteria of in the top 10%. We are not wealthy enough for me to consider private tutoring, but are not poor either.
My parents were poor growing up, both benefited from a system at the time which recognised their ability. It made all the difference for them and they were well enough off to pay for my private education at a time when childeren were not given ability based education in the state system.
I wish it were available in my area for my children and for poor childeren, who it would give the chance of better social mobility.

I would hate to see other schools go down to a 4 day week and find that totally unacceptable.

Anon1234567890 Fri 10-Mar-17 17:11:39 I don't, but it seems to be the only option on the table for very able children.

And the option for the vast majority of children is?

Its definitely something to aim for if only we had the money to do it over the whole country.
Then taxes have to rise.

Good services cost money.
The Tories are kidding people when they say that they do not.
Its the same with the Health Service
and Adult Social care

In the 70's we had high taxes and high spending.
In the 80's taxes fell and spending fell but both still quite high
In the 90's they both fell further
In the 00's spending rose but taxes did not so reserves got eaten up and borrowing rose
in the 10's taxes got cut, spending got cut even as need rose so the borrowing has cranked higher even with austerity

we need to grow up and realise that health and education are investments for the future and that taxes need to rise by around 4%

Why are high ability children more imprtant than low and middle ability children?

"Its not a party political issue. Its a case of allowing LEAs to provide enough places for the kids who need them So why haven't they done it?"

Because it is currently against the law - no LEA can open new schools as all new schholshave to be free schools or academies, and LEAs can neither found academies / free schools nor be a controlling part of the management of a multi academy trust.

So the town I live in needs a new school. Everyone, including the LEA, knows a new school is needed. There is even some funding available, from housebuilders. However, everyone has to wait until someone comes along and says 'yes, we'll found a new academy / free school [but by the way we want to put it HERE, not THERE, because although this is where places are needed, we don't want to put the school there because its catchment won't be quite privileged enough]'

Madness, that the people in the best position to judge actual supply and demand for school places, the people who administer the admissions process for all schools, who have links to all the data needed to calculate supply and needs...are absolutely not allowed to open new schools.

I'd be happy to see rises in vat for (true luxury items) ie. Not food.

I was also ok with th 17% rise in council tax I got this year.

I am less impressed with the unfair targeting of self employed people. NI contributions.

If they were going to raise that then it should be raised for employees too.

Thegruffalowswife Fri 10-Mar-17 17:13:16 I think it is unreasonable to suggest that grammar schools are stuffed with "tutored kids"

Really, so the majority of DCs are not tutored for the 11 plus?

my daughter would almost definately have met the criteria of in the top 10%.

Which criteria would that be?

We are not wealthy enough for me to consider private tutoring, but are not poor either.

How wealthy do you need to be?

Why are high ability children more imprtant than low and middle ability children?

They are not more important but we need them for the sake of our future economy. If you don't give poor kids the chance, then they will never be able to compete with the rich privately educated ones and poverty will allowed to continue for generation after generation of the same family.

Another question, btw, is about what % of children are seen to NEED this fabled 'different education because they are failed by comprehensives'.

In Kent, it's 25% of all children.

In other areas, it might be 10%, 5% or less than 1% (superselective-only areas) ... and then that is taken, by people in those areas, as the % of children who 'need' grammar education.

Can it really be true that in some counties 25% of children would be 'failed' by a comprehensive system, whereas other counties are quite happy that only 3% are 'failed' and thus need to go to grammars?

I believe, by the way, that there are a tiny minority - 1 in 1000 - who are genuinely so rare in the school system as a whole that their needs cannot be effectively catered for in a mainstream school with a normal distribution of ability. But is definitely isn't as high as 1 in 4.

Thegruffalowswife Fri 10-Mar-17 17:30:04 They are not more important but we need them for the sake of our future economy.

I think we need a well ballanced workforce for the future of the economy. I don't think we're likely to get that if we only focus on educating the top 10%.

My daughter has never been tutored. I have bought her a couple of revision guides from smiths at her request.

She is expecting to get As in her exams. It has been easy for her. She has often wanted more from school and finds it boring, because she feels like she is held back.

My oldest sister was the same. She got a full scholarship to private school. My mum and dad paid a lower rate to send me as I was her sibling. She was completely rejected by the state system at the time, because she was misbehaving as she was bored. My parents were very upset at the thought of sending her privately as my (poor wider family)family were very upset about it and thought it was morally wrong. She is now very successful and extremely well off.

Why are high ability children more needed for our future economy than middle and lower ability ones?

My family have never been allowed to forget it, but my parents had no choice. We are widely snubbed by our wider family as a result.

They are all needed for different things.

Thegruffalowswife - She is expecting to get As in her exams.

Which exams would these be?

The Brexit vote was in part a reaction to large numbers of unskilled immigrants
who are here doing jobs that British kids cannot / will not do
without the unskilled labour the economy will topple at the knees very fast

As the parent of two very academic kids I am aware that the non academic ones are actually more important to the economic future of the UK.

HPFA/Noble
Clearly any grammar school opened in Oxford would have a much wider catchment area than 2 miles. However, Oxford has two examples of excellent secondary modern schools which do very well for disadvantaged low and middle achievers.

Ta1kinPeace
If you are being sarcastic about the number of EAL students at Oxford Spires - Oxford Academy has an even better Progress 8 (well above average progress) and only 10% EAL.

"As the parent of two very academic kids I am aware that the non academic ones are actually more important to the economic future of the UK."

I completely agree. I do not agree with any cutting of funding or shorter weeks for these childeren. They also need education based on their ability and perhaps less focus on academic subjects. They need more practical training etc.

The academic childeren should also have their needs met. That is all I am saying.

gruffalow off-topic, but I understand that self-employed people pay a lower rate of national insurance and that has been increased as some benefits that they receive (something to do with the state pension) have increased; rather than self-employed people being plucked out of thin air as a group to pay more national insurance.

"because she feels like she is held back."

In what way?

Yes but with no maternity pay, holiday entitlement or protection in the event of short or long term sickness.