Tories pour millions into new grammars while state schools discuss the possibility of a 4 day week

[noblegiraffe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/theresa-may-unveils-plans-new-generation-grammar-schools/

In a cowardly move, the Tories are publishing their White Paper on grammars before publishing the responses to the Green Paper which, the best thing Justine Greening could say about them was that they were 'not overwhelmingly negative'.

What a bunch of fucking shite. And where are they going to get the thousands of pounds required for free transport for golden ticket poor kids? The only potential money-saver here is that we know that the vast majority of poor kids don't get into grammars. Why not save this money and put it into the school that the poor kid would be going to originally? Then everyone would win, including the poor kid who isn't faced with a long commute, the poor kid who didn't get into the grammar, and the 90% of kids who aren't 'grammar material' (decided by a faulty test which puts kids in the wrong school aged 10) who would see more investment in their education which is desperately needed at the moment.

In our local grammar the only time distance comes into play is if the last two allocated have the same score, so you could apply from 500 miles away and still get in.

goodbyestranger Thu 09-Mar-17 14:24:46 For our school that tie-breaker has only be used once in recent years.

I'm curious which SS this is (not asking you to name it btw). I've never heard of a SS that isn't oversubscribed.

goodbye that's the rumour but we need to see the White Paper to see the plans.

The government would be total idiots to allow conversions, but I think there is already scope to within MATs. The government is desperate for groups to open new schools, absolutely desperate. They are trying to get current grammars, universities and religious groups to open free schools. Grammars and universities are more likely to do this if they can open selective schools.

If existing schools can convert to grammars, then where is the gap in the market for the local university to open one?

Mum of course it's oversubscribed. What I'm saying is that in recent years there has only been a single instance of the last score in the list - the 120th for the sake of argument - being an absolute tie between two applicants. And therefore the distance criterion has been of no relevance other than in that single case. It's not plausible to say that schools who adopt that criterion in their list of over subscription criteria have a 'catchment', which was what Bertrand seemed to suggest.

Bertrand, no, not really.

Say the school admits 150 pupils.

8000 people take a test.

Their scores are combined with fudge factors to produce a ranking. Let us say that the 1st - 96th in the ranking have higher scores, then the next 10 children have the same score.

All those who are placed 1st - 96th get in. This might well include children living 50 miles away, 35 miles away, 60 miles away, even further if the parents intend to move before entrance day. If their scores have put them well above 100th in the ranking, they get places.

Then the school looks at the next 10 children, who all got exactly the same score. They may ALL live far closer to the school than the furthest child yet admitted - 10s of miles within the 'footprint of guaranteed entrants' - BUT only 4 of them will be admitted, and those 4 will be those who live closes to the school.

So the 'catchment for the first 96' can be VAST, but the cut-off distance for those with the identical last 'pass mark' can be down to tens of metres.

(Oops, read '100' in my second line - I thought I had edited that)

So technically, all 120 places could go to kids who live 100 miles away?

Bertrand, yes.

Well, that's first for the chop in My Glorious Reign!

Why? It avoids the pricing out of the less well off.

Goodbye, no, because the buses are expensive. So the less well off, who can't afford the bus fares, can't take up places even if they get them....

Is there a school bus, then?

Just googled for some examples.

this might be relevant.

The local bus companies run bus routes - often hundreds or thousands of pounds a year -, or children take the train.

example [[http://www.pates.gloucs.sch.uk/images/parents/buses_and_travel/7816-PATES-Transport-eprf3.pdf]]

Well yes of course transport has been a problem historically and the government's announcement yesterday acknowledges that. Rural grammars have had a particular problem and I've mentioned it as a problem several times already on this thread. Even before this announcement though, some schools, realizing the major disincentive to disadvantaged DC living a distance away, have already had schemes in place to help with the cost of transport. The governments pledge will mean this is no longer a problem for any DC eligible for free school meals whichever selective school s/he qualifies for but unfortunately it doesn't help those just above the threshold.

Bertrand our school has buses serving the entire 50 mile catchment - why does the idea of school buses surprise you?

Ooh, that really did't work. try this one

example

goodbyestranger Thu 09-Mar-17 14:58:09 Why? It avoids the pricing out of the less well off.

Affordability isn't the only consideration when a DC is facing a 2 hour each way journey though.

Done it again! Not catchment - I used the term very loosely!

Well I guess the answer is to allow existing schools to convert to selective status then Mum :)

"Bertrand our school has buses serving the entire 50 mile catchment - why does the idea of school buses surprise you?"

Free?

Goodbye, but then what happens to those 90% of children who can no longer attend their local school, which has suddenly turned selective? Is there going to be a free for all in which all schools in an area turn selective, leaving a 'school of last resort' to which those children who qualify for no selective school have to be bused to?

goodbyestranger Thu 09-Mar-17 15:09:28 Well I guess the answer is to allow existing schools to convert to selective status then Mum

I suspect it would depend on which schools would opt to convert. If they are all "leafy comps" I don't see how that will help.

And of course it will be those 'leafy comps' that everyone resents the existence of who will have the greatest incentive to turn selective (for otherwise they will have all their pupils pulled away by schools that do turn selective) - now they are selective not only by postcode but also by ab ility ... how does that help other schools / other pupils??

X post!

A 16.46 drop of time is not that bad really !
also there is nothing wrong with 7.30am pick up.

There are certainly worth the opportunity to attend such a great school as Pates Grammar. The prospect of saving £12,000 -15,000 per year on day fees for the same standard of education, is worth paying whatever the coach fees are !.