Secondary school appeal advise.

[PonderingButterfly]

Can I swear , its almost midnight and I want to shout " Fckng d*ckwads" to school admissions and vent and wake my kids and neighbors up. And it'll be totally worth it. I want to act like a juvenile right now.WHY?

For those of you who have children off to Secondary/high school in September, this week you'll receive confirmation of an offer. I happened to receive mine at 11:30 (who the fck does that), yes I'm a super sour lemon right now. I almost had a heart attack before bed.

Here I am ranting, I applied to 6 schools of course the first preference is the school I highly want my daughter to get into. Guess what, I get the very bottom of the pile . I wished now I didn't fill in all 6 preferences. That was my huge mistake, humungousaurus mistake. At least if I had 3 they will have to offer me one of the 3.I'm blubbering like a petulant child right now. I read google reviews on the school and almost jumped out the window. It is appealing..stabbings..lack of safety..the list goes on. Being a party pooper I had to break the news to my OH who is now fuming at work.

We had high hopes that my daughter will get into one of the top 3 not because we fall within the schools radar but we ticked all the boxes and are high in the can I say guaranteed place. Yes a priority, we tick all the boxes. I gave in the form on the day application began and also giving the following SIF to the relevant schools.

At least they were nice enough to say my daughter will be put on the waiting list. Not!

Now I don't know what to tell my daughter in the morning. We have been waiting anxiously for the results. What a great birthday gift this will be for her.

Mumnetters, what would you guys do and how do you think I should appeal. Shall I accept it, well obviously will have to otherwise she won't have a place. But then, hopefully even if its full , God willing not all applicants will accept.But if its our first preference ticking all the boxes and been shot down and given the bottom pile as an offer.Do we even have a chance?

I need a vice right now.But a hangover mum on a weekday is probably frowned upon. Maybe I should go for a run or just drop to the floor and throw a tantrum.

Being under SS care in another borough is no grounds for them not to put her in the highest category.

Stay calm. Get all your documents etc. together. Check on any contacts you feel you need to make.

This does sound like an open and shut case - and regardless of the school being full you should get a place.

From the letter your daughter was clearly considered under category 4. So the central question is whether she should have been in category 1.

Being looked after is a very specific legal status. As TeenAndTween says, it is not the same as being on Social Services radar. To be looked after there must have been a care order granted by a court placing her in care, or she must have been cared for by the LA for at least 24 hours (i.e. she must have been in accommodation provided by or on behalf of the LA). It is not clear from your description if your daughter was ever actually in care as opposed to social services simply being involved.

If she was in care at some point there has been a clear mistake. However, if she has never been in care the school has got it right. You can still appeal but your case will be very different.

In order for her to be in category 1 would she needed to have been in care i.e foster care to be classed as 'looked after' because I assume 'looked after' was when a child was under social services.

We have included all documents on application to school and the LA regarding DD under SGO. All was complete and had a lady from the school to look over my documents.

OP, just to warn you, your DDs name is on the second page of the document.

I agree that the issue isn't that your child was subject to an SGO rather than an adoption: it now seems to
hinge on whether she was looked after - rather than just known to social services - immediately before that and (if she was) whether the school had that information and overlooked it. There are then further questions about why she wasn't considered under category 3.

OP - Aaaah pants am usually more careful than that. And I don't know how to delete it. I'm still figuring how to tag someone so its a relevant reply to what they have said.

Oops. Disregard that last bit.

Looked after means they have been taken into care, not just that social services are in some way involved.

Pondering Broadly speaking yes you would expect her to have been in foster care to count as Looked After. Kinship carers (members of extended family stepping in) can often get 'caught out'. They kindly step in to stop a child going in to care, and then discover that SS metaphorically wash their hands of responsibility for any support, monetary, emotionally or otherwise. Sometimes things are a bit more formal but from reading adoption boards people do seem to get shafted this way quite often.

The admissions experts may be able to give guidance on whether a sympathetic appeals panel might be likely to admit on the basis of background at that she 'would have been looked after' if you hadn't stepped in. You could build a good case for wanting stability and faith and community if she has had quite a disrupted life so far.

The appeals panel has to work from the school's admissions criteria as they are and if a child does not meet the definition of LAC (or any other relevant oversubscription criterion) the panel can't act as if they were. In the same way, whether the school made an error in overlooking information or placing the child in the wrong category makes a world of difference.

Even so, if the child does not meet the definition of a LAC and the school has made no error, the child's difficult early experiences and need for stability (and any other needs) can be included as part of the picture of why the child would face 'prejudice' if not admitted to the school. The panel then decides whether that potential prejudice is greater than the prejudice to the school in having an additional pupil.

In my understanding she is not a 'looked after' child because she has not been taken into care. When their father left them and didn't come back.Does that count as anything or it is just seen as family members looking after child.

It's hurting my head..boohooo. Only managed to write dear sir/madam.

Would it be a good idea to ask for clarification as to why she was not considered under the looked after category? Then you can have it in writing that they realised she wasn't ex-looked after so discounted.

Then concentrate on building case for appeal.

As well as being part of community and faith, does the school have anything special in the pastoral area which would be good for a child from an unsettled background? e.g. My DD is currently participating in a social skills group. She also benefitted from a 5 day 'summer school' to help with transition from primary to secondary. If her education / attendance was disrupted due to circumstances before, does the school have any special SN support she would benefit from.

Does your DD have a particular skill / interest which is a strength of the school.

Think of all the reasons you like the school and why they are important and go from there.

Good luck.

No, I'm afraid it does not count.

As PanelChair suggests, you can talk about her need for stability due to her mother dying and her father abandoning her. You should also look for other reasons she needs this school to strengthen your case. Look for things this school provides that are missing from the offered school and that would be particularly relevant for your daughter.

Take your time over the appeal form. There is no rush to get it in. You need to get it in before the deadline but there is no advantage to getting it in early.

prh47bridge Thanks.Actually thanks to all of you.

I've accepted she hasn't got any of the preferred top choices. But it's a bit of a downer when you want to do the very best choices for your child.I'll keep her on waiting list but that's another thing to consider if she settles at a school and then having to pull her away.

These are my points so far.

• Faith, the offered one has no fixed denomination and we are practicing Catholics and we value their ethos in integrating faith and education.

-stability, as some have already mentioned she didn't have a good start.Long story, maybe for another day. -School is very disciplined. -Ofsted, the obvious outsanding report -distance, 20-25mins walk 10mins bus its close, convenient,local, familiar and will be close to her siblings.

• the school offers a particular sport she loves and was very impressed with their textiles and cooking department, she has a talent for art.

And of course I'll elaborate on each point.

I think I'll take a breather and don't get too worked up on this right now and enjoy her bday weekend. But more inputs are overly welcomed in building an appeal.

There are some good points there. Taking them one at a time...

I would turn the faith point around a little and make it about the ethos of the school. Think particularly about how that impacts your daughter - you might, for example, talk about her need for the more caring environment provided by the Catholic school (provided you can justify that). It depends to some degree on the panel. Some appeal panels love an appellant who talks about faith whereas others don't like it so much. I would therefore go for ethos in your written case and play it by ear during the hearing. However, I suspect that many of the other appellants will talk about faith so you talking about faith doesn't make your case any stronger than theirs. If you concentrate on ethos that will help - most of the other appellants won't pick up on that angle (unless they read Mumsnet!).

Stability is definitely a good point. Given the things you have said about your daughter I think this is something the panel could find convincing. I would be tempted to put this first and spend some time on it.

The school being very disciplined is fine but you need to explain why that is important for your daughter. Why does she need a disciplined school more than other children of her age.

Keep well away from the Ofsted rating. It won't help you and could damage your case. Yes, you want an outstanding school for your daughter. Everyone understands that. But you will struggle to explain why having an outstanding school is more important for your daughter than for other children. In any case, appeal panels are specifically told they can't take relative Ofsted ratings into account. If they did, everyone allocated a school that was less than outstanding could appeal for an outstanding school and get it. Having said that, I would recommend reading the latest Ofsted report carefully. It may say things about the ethos and activities of the school that you can use in your appeal.

Distance is another thing that panels aren't really supposed to take into account unless the pupil has mobility difficulties. However, some panels do consider it important. I would mention it but don't spend too much time on it. If it seems to strike a chord with the panel in the hearing you can elaborate on it then.

Your final point about sport, textiles, cooking and art is one of your strongest points. This is the kind of thing the appeal panel is looking for. It should be much higher up the list - I would put it after stability and possibly after ethos and discipline but ahead of everything else. Spend plenty of time on this. Talk about your daughter's current involvement in the sport, her interest in textiles and cooking and her talent for art. If you can get independent evidence of her abilities in these areas (e.g. letters from her sports coach and art teacher - DON'T send examples of her art) that will help but don't worry if you can't.

Looking at your stronger points you have the beginnings of a decent appeal case. I can't guarantee the outcome - sometimes the school's case to refuse admission is so strong that no appeal will succeed, no matter how strong the case. But you have some good points to build on here.

Yes to everything prh47bridge has said.

You need to accentuate all those things - ethos, pastoral care, curriculum, extra curricular activities, whatever else - that your child needs and this school can offer and which other schools can't (or can only offer significantly less well).

To tag someone you just put an @ before their username and then they'll get a notification that they've been mentioned.

So if I type, @PonderingButterfly you should have an email alert saying you've been replied to.

I am sorry that it looks like she doesn't fall under criteria 1. I think if she had you would also have been eligible for the other higher schools too. I know that you are focussing on your first choice and in many ways with the faith aspect it does sound like a good chance. To my mind you have fallen foul of the technicality rather than the spirit of the code. Hopefully a sympathetic panel with a little flexibility on class size will concur.

I would say that it is definitely worth applying to the other schools on your list. They might have marginally larger classrooms, different appeal panel, I have even known some appeal panels to direct the school to take a whole extra class (admittedly in the weird world of grammar school). Even if your top choice doesn't have that flexibility your second or third might.

Once you prepare one set of appeal documents you might as well prepare more. Also having sat in front of one panel it doesn't feel as daunting. The appeals are unlikely to be held in the order in which you have appealed so you might gain valuable experience (and maybe even a place) from your third option before the appeal for your top choice.

If you want to maybe you can tell us about option 2 and 3. What angles can you get on them? Where do choices 4 and 5 figure in your thoughts? You have some experts on this thread who I know over the years have given their time to support people in your position and I am sure that they would like to help your daughter as much as possible.

Disciplined - often children who have had disruption in their lives benefit tremendously from having very clear boundaries and known consequences for breaking them. it helps make them feel safe and secure. If they have lived in a chaotic home (due to being overwhelmed by parenting, neglect or fecklessness for example) they can feel like the ground keeps moving under their feet. If you have found that you need firmer boundaries than other parents then a school with strong discipline will be more important for your daughter than for other children coming from a safer more stable environment.

Good luck with this OP.

I could see how a faith school could be especially important to a religious child whose mother had died.

HELP! Hi. New to this site. After recieving our sons secondary allocated school, we were extremely disappointed that he did'nt get his school of choice. We only put one school down as when we attended the open evening, my son was extremely happy and was adament this was where he wanted to attend. Hes a very shy, intravert boy, and i was really taken back by his attitude to visiting high school and ENJOYING IT.he took part in all the demonstrations and did'nt want to leave. I was so pleased by how he dealt with it and i was satisfied that if that was where he wanted then that was fine by me. Going back to july 2015, my son suddenly took ill and he was shortly after diagnosed with stage3 kidney cancer. This devastated us as a family. Before this his self asteem and confdence was low, but his diagnosis took this to another level. He endured surgery and months of radiotherapy and chemotherapy. The school allocated is further away from home and will take two buses to reach. None of his friends are going there, and we feel he will be isolated. He has no independence so this will be a real mountain task. The school we wanted is a direct route from bus stop few doors away. He has several friends going there. He felt so comfortable about the travelling as its so close to home. We are preparing to appeal. Can anyone provide useful advise?

Mylo: in a nutshell:
Go on waiting list
Also you can go on waiting lists for other schools that would be suitable
Lodge appeal before the deadline
Read all the appeal threads on the Secondary Education boards
If you need more advice start your own thread with a specific title such as 'help for medical need appeal'.

Does the school you want have medical need as a criteria in its admissions policy?
Did you apply under that category and send evidence?
If so ask if your application was considered under that category.
Do you live within the distance that was published in the LA Admissions book as the 'catchment' for last year?
You might get a wait list place on distance.