Progress 8 - less focus on C/D borderline and consequences for grade 4 students

[noblegiraffe]

So we are now all about progress 8, it's progress that counts and getting a B to an A is as valuable as getting a D to a C (except for slight quibbles about numeric values). This is seen as a good thing, all pupils will get support to reach their targets.

What I'm seeing: There is a limited amount of maths intervention available to help students - 1-1 and small group tuition at tutor times and so on. Previously this was focused on C/D borderline kids to help them get the magic C grade and boost the school headline figures. Now it is given to students who are falling well short of their target grade, who need the double weighted boost of an increase in a maths grade to improve their overall score.
I teach several students who are sitting on a 3, and with extra support could reach a 4 - the key grade where they won't have to resit in sixth form, and which will ensure access to certain college courses. Getting a 4 would be extremely important to them. They are not on the intervention lists, and not getting the help that they would have got in previous years, instead it's going to other, higher (and lower) achieving students. The grade that is important to them is no longer important to the school.

In practice 'more support for all' seems to mean 'less support for those to whom it really matters'.

I'd like to think that teachers care about all their pupils.

That's not really an answer to the question is it?

It's a silly question. I presume your pupils fall into far more than those two simplistic camps.

I've taught both of those pupils. Quite a few from each, actually.

Which SEN do you think was easier to spot?

Which SEN do you think was easier to spot?

From the scant information given, I've got no idea but I haven't got reams of SATs, CATs, MidYIS, assessments, homework, group presentations, classroom interaction, parental concern, etc, etc, etc in front of me.

Oh come on, IDK. If you can't admit that a kid who is visibly struggling in primary school would be flagged up for assessment sooner than a kid who apparently sails through secondary, then there's no point in discussing this further.

I don't give easy answers to apparently trick questions.

So you are happy that teachers only identify the easy spots and fail the others, the ones who should be sailing through secondary but aren't.

I'm saying it's pretty fucking understandable when teachers fail to spot hard to spot SEN.

'So you are happy that teachers only identify the easy spots and fail the others, the ones who should be sailing through secondary but aren't.'

Apart from the obvious fact that pupils struggle in school for a host of reasons other than SEN, most Teachers have minimal training in identifying SEN and aren't trained to assess for SEN.

What was the test that your ds scored 5th percentile on where his school ''failed'' to identify his SEN?

Kids also cover up SEN. Students with ASD might mask, a kid with processing difficulties might work their socks off to keep up, another might put in minimal effort so that their failures can be written off as 'didn't care, didn't try'.

Noble You've only mentioned one kid as having SEN in your question. The other kid you said is 'behind their peers'. Based on the minimal info you've given particularly about child 1, I can only assume they don't have SEN but the second one does because you told us.

I think you need to furnish us with a bit more i formation than you e given to be able to come to an i formed decision. I'm assuming in a real life situation, the school will have more information about why child1 is behind their peers. All this information put together will help to pinpoint which one's SEN might be more indentidiBle/overlooked.

Well that's it, the teacher won't know if either have SEN. That's a job for the professionals. One is much more likely to be referred for assessment than the other. In sixth form students may flag issues up themselves rather than it being spotted by a teacher.

Your question still doesn't make sense. You've already told us one child has SEN, whilst the other was simply behind their peers. Which SEN is easier to spot?

Simply being behind does not equal a SEN. Being diagnosed with a processing a difficulty would require a professional to spot, so both examples you have given are too vague. Anyway, don't want to derail thread.

oh FGS both kids had an SEN, that's the whole point otherwise why would I have said which SEN was easier to spot?! This whole scenario started with me saying 'some SEN are more visible than others'. The scenario was an illustration of that. One caused the kid to visibly struggle in primary, the other did not even visibly struggle up to GCSEs.

Okay

Apologies. This conversation started with a poster dragging my DS's SEN record across from another thread in order to (incorrectly) call me a massive hypocrite, which is why I was a bit tetchy.