German Gcse as an external candidate

[chillie]

My dd is in yr9 and has decided not to take German GCSE as one of her options as she prefers other subjects. I have pointed out to her that it is very likely that she would get a level 9 and she agrees but says that she is likely to get a level 9 in all the subjects she has chosen too, and does not have room for this one.
Last summer she did the German 2014 foundation paper as her end of year exam and got a 'c' so I think that if she is able to get 'c' now then it would be better for her to do the exam this summer, two years early , as she has already done three years study for it rather than drop it with no qualification at all. she is not keen on the 'c' but I would be over the moon with a 'c', not just 'a's count. However the school won't do it as their grade average and therefore league tables would drop so I have to organise it myself. Anyone know how to go about this? I don't know if or even what a controlled assessment is or is part of the exam. The board is aqa I think and I have had a look but can't tell what I'm looking at.
Any and all help very gratefully received

If she is taking 11 GCSEs, why does she need another one? Universities aren't interested in anything more than 10, which is what is standard round here

8 or 9 is probably enough.

My son's school told me they could enter my son for German GCSE if I wanted them to, and would provide a teacher to be an examiner for the oral if necessary. That would be at the same time as his other GCSEs though.

chillie,
Is your DD continuing with another MFL to GCSE?

I agree with the other posters on here that there is no point in achieving a 'C' as an extra.

I mark GCSE and IGCSE German speaking and writing. I doubt very much whether she has the time to complete the controlled assessments over the next three months, nor whether she's learnt the structures needed to achieve a 'C', unless she's been crammed, in which case she'll forget it all as quickly a she learnt it.

It's a lot of hassle for almost nothing.

There are thousands of children who do early native language exams every year, I'm sure that these exams are not considered useless outright.

yes they are

Even if the child gets an A*?

all of them get A*, obviously.

(unless they have some sort of learning difficulties)

it is the equivalent of any English child being given the statement "Jo and Cathy went to the swimming pool" then being asked "Where did Jo go?" "Who did Jo go with?" etc

these exams are done for fun, basically,

(and sometimes they are used to warp the schools statistics)

they are of absolutely zero value to the child! nobody would count them as meaning anything

DD took iGCSE maths 6 months early and got an A*. Is this a meaningless qualification as well?

no, not six month early, that is normal, and is an alternative to studying two qualifications side by side, many schools do this with science, take one qualification, then the other. As long as all qualifications are taken between the end of year 10 and the end of year 11, they all count ( except the own language ones, they re of no value, not counted towards A levels, or UCAS, etc - or by employers)

So DD's Chinese friend who got an A* in Chinese (Mandarin I think) wasted her time doing it in year 9?

That is why, if you are French, Spanish or German speaker, for example, it is utterly stupid to draw attention to this by taking the exam early. Take it with the others, and make out you are NOT a native speaker, just someone who learnt a foreign language ( to a low level) at school, alongside many other subjects, and it will count like any other GCSE that is commonly taught as a modern language at secondary school ( these days that includes Russian, Mandarin, Japanese, etc too)

So DD's Chinese friend who got an A in Chinese (Mandarin I think) wasted her time doing it in year 9?*

cross posted, but yes! Disastrous!

stupid, stupid waste of GCSE points.

She could have raised her average GCSE grade significantly, if she had done this at the proper time, such a waste of an opportunity, it won't count as anything at all, and it could have counted a lot.

WHY!!

Why don't early GCSEs count? I don't think many parents know this. The Chinese girl's parents push their children and anything less than an A is not good enough. If they had known that getting an A at age 14 was pointless they probably wouldn't have made their daughter do it.

The top universities need to make sure that their students can cope with the intensive nature of their degrees. This is evidenced by a string of top grades ALL TAKEN TOGETHER. Getting three Astar in year 9, another three in year 10 and a final three in year 11 proves the kid can study three subjects at the same time, while everyone else is doing 9 or 10. Pointless.

The same for language A levels too btw. Look at prospectuses. They usually won't include language A levels taken in the native language in the offer.

Why don't early GCSEs count?

because it's not just the grade that counts, but the circumstances in which the grade was acheived.

year 10 and 11 are high pressure, hard working years, compared to other years.

To get an A* in a subject when you are working hard on 9 other subjects as well is lot harder than when it is the only subject you had to worry bout within that 6 month period.

For example, we have had home educated children roll up at 6th form enrollment with 10 A*s and turned them away,

its not unusual for a home educated child to study only one or two subjects at once. Its so easy, to take 10 GCSEs over 5 years, concentrate on one subject at a time for 6 months, get an A* in it, drop it and pick up another, for a further 6 months.

In this way, starting at year 7, 10 As is meaningless. some HE children start even earlier, not only is the A no indication of ability, it is also often many years since they looked at that subject by the time they apply to sixth form.

Very different indeed to a student who studied all their subjects in year 10 and 11, and comes to us with 8 B grades. They would be taken above the 10 A*s over 3-6 years student. The second student has actually demonstrated a much higher level of academic achievement.

we have distraught parents every year, who keep on insisting this isn't fair, but it is fair, its based on what we know the grades indicate about that student, and what they are capable of at the next stage.

and quite apart from that, the early GCSEs do not count in the statistics and ssessments for that child, or for the school.

On parent I will never forget screamed and stamped and sobbed around our school premises for the whole enrollment week. Her daughter had got A* in English literature aged 13, but wasn't accepted onto the English literature A level course, because she had done no English work for over three years by then, and had no recent record of achievement, or even engagement.

I did feel very sorry for her, because I think she had done what she thought best for her child, but the fact was it was useless.

All was not lost though, all uk students are entitled to three years sixth form education, she could have done a one year GCSE resit year or a level 2 BTEC, then moved onto A level, but the mother never agreed to that.

Are home educators aware of this? I have read quite a few HE threads on here where they extol the virtues of home education, one of them being that the children can take their GCSEs staggered through the years.

home educators taking responsibility for their children's education should make sure they know what they are doing!

No, some are not, as i see at sixth form enrollment every year, when there are always some that simply cannot believe they re hearing "No".

however, most are aware, I think we always have some home educated children apply who have a decent set of GCSEs taken together aged 16, because their parents make sure they do it that way.

And a lot of home educators don't want a further or higher education opportunities for their children anyway, so don't care.

This thread has been an eye opener for me. Fortunately DD has 10 excellent GCSEs - one taken in January and the other nine in May/June so it isn't an issue for us.

I still wonder what the thinking behind the OP's original post was. Perhaps she will rethink the German and allow her child to concentrate on her school subjects only.

user1484226561
I know many many home educating families. I know of NO youngster who has been turned down for 6th form, college or university.
This might get happen the school you are employed by but it is totally not the norm.
I personally know young people at oxford, Cardiff, Durham and Southampton universities who have NO GCSEs or A levels!
I know plenty in 6th form and college with either no GCSEs or have taken them preadover 2-3 years.
Indeed many schools stagger some GCSEs over 2 different exam sitting years. My friends son has taken 2 aged 14 and will take a further 8 at 16 years: at a state school.
You are absolutely NOT talkIng about the overwhelming number of schools, colleges and universities.
And you cannot at all compare the academic abilities of a home ed teen with that of a schooled teen: they are two different for comparison. A home ed teen who has self-taught to gcse or A level is actually seen as having a huge advantage in terms of higher education. Again, this is from personal experience.
You seem to be very anti home education. It's simply an alternative approach to education.
Sad.

User - I'd love to know what apparently very oversubscribed 6th form you work for.
Knowing another language is an asset. And having a GCSE in it is a way of demonstrating that you know it ( to a degree). No harm in that, as far as getting a job is concerned. But it is important to keep the language up.
The OP is in the mindset that believes that nothing is worth doing for its own sake - all work must be "cashed in" for a certificate. Sad.

my sixth form isn't over subscribed, quite the opposite, we re not anyone's first choice, I don't think. We take the difficult students, the ones who have been turned down else where, or asked to leave their current school.

laughing camel, I am talking about national and government policy, applicable to everyone, and all state schools, although of course academies can do as they please, they are still measured by the same yardstick

I know plenty in 6th form and college with either no GCSEs or have taken them preadover 2-3 years

yes of course, taking them over two years is normal, taking them over three years happens, but the first year is disregarded, and we take plenty of students with no GCSEs at all, onto level 1 and level 2 courses, not A levels.

It is the same with uni, anyone can go if they pay, but not onto a degree course, in fact the lower you start, the more profit the institution makes from you. ( remember its £9000 a year, even if you re starting at the equivilant of GCSEs) It is quite possible to spend two or three years working up to being accepted onto a degree, or even a diploma

And you cannot at all compare the academic abilities of a home ed teen with that of a schooled teen: they are two different for comparison

but they are in direct competition with each other for educational places and jobs, so of course they are directly compared, every day.

as I said further up the thread, the children with spread out GCSEs are offered something, we don't turn them away with nothing, they can redo GCSEs with us, or take a level 1, or level 2 BTEC, you don't need any qualifications at all to do level 1 ( it is roughly the level of year 8 or year 9) and you can move on from that to do a higher level qualification, then go to university to do a foundation or prefoundation course.

They are not necessarily without academic ability, just have not demonstrated it.

These particular children can sometimes have very poor learning and social habits, not always, but we know what to look out for at interview, and this can lead to failure if put onto a too challenging course, even if they are capable academically.

quite often, they are just immature, and a few years behind, so they are offered a course suitable for their level. They can go on from that and do well.

user1484226561
The young people in our area are NOT "behind".
If the have applied for 6th form they have got into level 3 courses. If college at 16 it's level 3 courses. College at 14-16 provision level 2 or 3 courses.
Every single home educated young person I know who has applied for university has been snapped up for degree courses, some with no firm qualifications. Many universities and companies are incredibly open to people who have not been through the school system.
I am incredibly glad we have the schools, colleges and universities who are accepting of these youngsters who have learnt with a different approach.
We have unschooled. No curriculum.
One of mine has just started school in Year 9. He's top of maths, English, geography, RPE, computer science.
You mare get have had a different experience in your job. But thousands of schooled children "fail" each year.
You seem to be a home education hater. No idea why.

I'm not a home education hater, I am a home education pragmatist, who over the years has taken on literally hundreds of hoe educated youngsters in the sixth former, and tried to help them move forward with their education and overcome their issues and problems and barriers.