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Original poster

A* or A in maths. Does it matter?

94 replies

1805 · 14/12/2016 19:58

If ds is eyeing up Oxbridge as possible uni's later on, is it essential he gets an A in maths? He is heading towards sciences as a future, but obviously is still early days. Maths is probably his weakest subject (bottom of top set) and his school put the top set in for maths gcse in jan - a few weeks away. I am wondering if I should ask for him to be put down a set and wait until July which would still be a year early. Or let him take it in Jan and hope he gets an A. Teacher says he "should" get A*.
Or would an A be ok anyway? Any Oxbridge people know?
Sorry, am rambling now….Thank you.

OP posts:
Manumission · 15/12/2016 08:55

Calm down Bert. Did you read all my posts on the thread or just get suddenly italicized about that last one?

I'm just disputing that pushiness is essential or has to come from somewhere external. xar was asserting that either the school or a parent had to be pushy. It's not true.

I don't know what the 'if MN is to be believed' scepticism about internally motivated Oxbridge applicants is in aid of.

xarpax · 15/12/2016 08:57

Only on mumsnet are kids totally and utterly self motivated, with no whip cracking from school or parents. It's like Billy Elliott on here, honestly.

jeanne16 · 15/12/2016 08:57

I am a secondary school maths teacher. January exams have been stopped except for resits. So only pupils who didn't get their C grade in maths or English on a previous attempt can now sit exams in January. Please go back and check this with your school.

jeanne16 · 15/12/2016 08:59

Also If your DC wants to do science at Oxbridge, A* s in maths and the sciences would be expected.

Manumission · 15/12/2016 08:59

It's funny. To my eyes MN is hothouse parenting central a lot of the time Smile

But really, MN isn't a place. It's a disparate collection of procrastinators. We all need to remember that.

xarpax · 15/12/2016 09:02

There's always that cornerstone of parents who love to talk about how little work they do or input they have and YET their children are reading History at Oxford etc etc

Same ones who used to pretend they hadn't done ANY revision for exams

xarpax · 15/12/2016 09:03

Anyhoo, I think we've established that the OPs school is most definitely one of the pushy ones!

AtiaoftheJulii · 15/12/2016 09:07

It is a fact that it matters less for Cambridge. - might change with the disappearance of AS's? Just speculating, not a fact, lol.

But I think user is right above - Oxford sciences (and I assume Cambridge NatSci) are extremely maths-heavy, and getting an A in maths gcse does not predict top grades at A level - although there are definitely exceptions, and presumably any admissions people would take into account that he sat it halfway through y10!

I'm sure with revision over Christmas he can get the A star. Good luck Smile

Manumission · 15/12/2016 09:08

You see, I can't understand why you're so determined to believe that/ pour scorn/ perpetuate the myth that the parents of sixth formers must exist in some kind of frenetic whirl of effort for two years.

It's a conspiracy of competitive performing and it stresses everyone out. The applicant's efforts are the main plank of any UCAS application. Why do we all have to whip ourselves up into frantic tiger-mothering competitions? It's so perplexing.

Drive them around to open days, do some basic research and chat to them. That's it. It's quite enough to slot into weekends.

xarpax · 15/12/2016 09:12

Err we aren't talking about sixth formers. The OPs son is in year 10 so could be 14. Doing maths gcse 18 months early and needs an a star. That's pushy!!

Manumission · 15/12/2016 09:14

I wasn't disputing that some parents are more enthusiastic in their forward planning than others.

I was disputing your assertion that all Oxbridge applicants must have either a pushy school or a pushy parent.

dingit · 15/12/2016 09:16

Coming late to thread, but don't do early GCSE. It's a pita. Dd did hers in year 9 and got an A when she should have got A*. She then got left to self study additional maths causing a lot of stress, she got an E in yr 10 and a B in yr 11. Fast forward to A level, she's struggled, as lost a lot of basic GCSE concepts from 2 years ago. She got a B at As and is now resitting her C1 paper to try and get an A, which she needs for her proposed degree in engineering.

Oh how I wish I'd put my foot down.

BertrandRussell · 15/12/2016 09:16

"Why do we all have to whip ourselves up into frantic tiger-mothering competitions? It's so perplexing."

Well, I suppose it depends whether you consider enquiring about grade requirements is tiger motherish? Hmm

Some schools don't understand the Oxbridge process. Surely it's a good idea for someone to check in time to change things if they've got it wrong?

Manumission · 15/12/2016 09:18

Well, I suppose it depends whether you consider enquiring about grade requirements is tiger motherish?

I don't. Not at all.

It's something xar said about the necessity of pushiness that I'm taking issue with.

Manumission · 15/12/2016 09:22

In fact what xar was saying was 'lucky OP doesn't NEED to be pushy because the excellent school will do it for her' - paraphrasing. I'm saying there is no 'need' anyway.

sendsummer · 15/12/2016 09:23

User is right, he won't enjoy and will struggle in a science course (even more for Oxbridge) that is physics or chemistry biased if his maths is not a strength.

Abraiid2 · 15/12/2016 09:25

If he wants to do medicine, having less than an A* in any of the core GCSEs can make it harder because those are the GCSEs used in university tariffs.

I'd keep him down for the year. You want the best result you can get as there are no AS levels now to help universities see what you're capable of.

PurpleDaisies · 15/12/2016 09:31

User is right, he won't enjoy and will struggle in a science course (even more for Oxbridge) that is physics or chemistry biased if his maths is not a strength.

I don't know what "even more for Oxbridge" is supposed to mean. My physics degree was just as difficult as dh's Oxford one. Hmm

sendsummer · 15/12/2016 09:39

PurpleDaisie I was thinking more of 'natural sciences' rather than making a judgement between individual physics courses.

1805 my point is that your DS should be in the position of liking maths enough to want to do it beyond GCSE and getting top grades at A level to consider top physics or chemistry or natural sciences courses.

Bluntness100 · 15/12/2016 10:00

Maybe need to qualify what leaning towards sciences means. Often degrees that require sciences also require maths.

I'd also agree that doing it early may not be best if he's going to require it at a level, will he be straight into studying it next year?

It's simply a lot of kids who get a star in maths GCSE struggled with a level, not as in fail, but they struggle to get the same A star at a level, depends on the kid. My daughter got a star in maths, and considered it, in her words "an easy exam" and most of the kids feel the same. She didn't do maths A a level, but the ones who did and also got a star, felt the leap between the two was huge.

There's always a big leap between GCSE and a level, but for some reason, maths is the one most of my daughters friends felt had the biggest leap.

There's nothing wrong with being pushy, as long as it's not too early or damaging to the kid and is simply helping them achieve their potential. Some kids are lazy little sods and do need a bit of a push.

I didn't push my daughter, because yes the sdhool did. im not sure if say uni does, but they like to pile on the work..😂

user7214743615 · 15/12/2016 10:14

It is a fact that you are unlikely to get into Oxford without excellent GCSEs. It is a fact that it matters less for Cambridge. And it is a fact that some institutions require a certain number of GCSEs to be taken in a single sitting.

These facts aren't actually facts. Under the new system of no AS grades, GCSEs are likely to matter as much for Cambridge as for Oxford.

Which institutions/courses have a rigid requirement that a certain number of GCSEs have to be taken in one sitting? I'm an academic and I actually don't know any course that has a rigid requirement. For one thing, it would be ludicrous to hold a school's silly behaviour against a strong candidate. For another, many home educated pupils don't have GCSEs at all or of they do have GCSEs they have often taken them in several different sittings.

llangennith · 15/12/2016 10:17

Oxford has to whittle down the applicants for places based on Alevel predictions so they do take GCSE results into consideration. So some applicants get immediate rejection and the best get an interview followed by either a conditional or unconditional offer of a place.

Original poster
1805 · 15/12/2016 10:53

xarpax - we didn't even look at when the pupils took their gcse's!!!!

I guess the school pushes them, but aren't they suppose to?

I think Manumission got it right - all of a sudden I am having an attack of the guilts and thinking I should have been more aware of when his gcse was going to be, and the marks he should be getting. Blush

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 15/12/2016 11:06

Presumably the school is trying to decide whether to put him in early. I would be surprised if a private school was putting anyone in early if they were not going to land the A*.

I assume it is for the good mathematicians. GCSE is not a huge hurdle for those with aptitude. Some schools may like to get it over with so that kids can then move onto to Add maths (which is what DD did after taking the GCSE in January) or perhaps plan for a three year A level course. The advantage of that would be to allow more scope for taking Further Maths A level as a fourth A level.

Your DS must be reasonable able. In which case GCSE is really a matter of practice. He should decide whether he wants to do something sciency, in which case, and depending on what the school do next, he should practice past papers like blazes over Christmas and land the A*. Or decide maths is not his thing and he is unlikely to want to take a degree with a high maths content. In which case, drop to a lower set and enjoy taking things a bit easier.

Its not really about Oxbridge, but keeping doors open. He may decide he wants to be a medic, where A* in maths really can matter, or an economist or engineer where good A level maths will be required for good courses. The problem now is that without AS levels, Universities will look at GCSE results to put A level predictions into context. Its less of a problem for Oxbridge who put huge resources into entrance exams, interviewing etc. It could be more of an issue if applying to oversubscribed courses elsewhere (LSE, say, do not interview) and where GCSE maths may well be used as an initial filter.

Original poster
1805 · 15/12/2016 11:22

needmoresleep - thanks. Keeping doors open is exactly what my op was about. Ds is 14. He is bright. Oxford may well be an option. So equally will lots of other uni's.

He doesn't fancy medicine - doesn't want to be involved with life/death decisions!
He does currently like chemistry and physics. Especially space related stuff. Who knows???

OP posts: