Possible school move - what matters most

[Desertdweller1]

Can I pick your brains on what is most important in a secondary school.
We have two days to decide whether to move DD or not.

In brief, DD in Y8 of large and growing non-selective co-ed school (private, but we are overseas so they all are), 9 forms a year, 10 next year, 24 per class. After a positive Y7, things have gone to pot this term. She is coasting, underachieving, grades and targets gone down. I've been struggling to get straight answers out of the school on what is going on and have spent 2 months going round in circles. It eventually transpired that DD was being bullied by two groups of kids, one male one female. This entailed name calling/teasing in one case and rumour spreading, ostracising in the other. The school now seems to have dealt with both issues and DD now seems a lot happier. But previously she was clearly not happy, bad tempered, school avoiding even.

Whilst this was going on I found an alternative school (rated outstanding, as is the current one). DD now has an offer on which we now need to move fast. She liked the school from a tour, knows some kids there, and freely admitted she would be able to work better there as the school is half the size, had smaller firms and even smaller sets. It is also mixed ability but sets for more subjects (and divides into more sets). The ethos is different and seems to stress effort and what can be achieved through application and hard work. That seems to be lacking in the existing school where DD says few work hard visibly at least as there is a culture of it not being cool to be seen making an effort.

I feel strongly that the learning will be better in the potential new school, as does my husband and DD. The exam results are better too with what must be a similar cohort (though the existing school's results are pretty good anyway).

BUT the existing school is the only one in our city that does both French and Spanish. At the new school DD would have to choose one. These are Two of DDs strongest and most liked subjects (and what I did at university!). She has no idea of what she wants to do in the future yet, and even if it were to be languages, languages ab initio at university are very common nowadays given the drop off in school language study.

And of course there is the upheaval from existing friends and the stress of change in itself. Note that We would not have contemplated a move were it not for the fact that DD has been unhappy and underperforming this term.
I know a happy child is the most important thing, but we have not had that recently.

So now that we are in the position we are in, what is more important: a generally better learning environment, or the ability to do the subject options you want and remain with friends?

Any thoughts that can help us make a quick decision?

DD seemed open to the new option yesterday but now has cold feet especially as we have only a week of term left and she would move for the start of the new term in January (tbh I'm panicking about that one too with all the paperwork and uniform!).

Ab initio French and Spanish are not routinely offered though as they are commonly taught in schools. I do share your concern though as a mum of a linguist!

If I am being honest, normally children gain a lot by staying with friends. When children are part of a group of friends who stick up for them, bullying tends to subside. If she has friends, why is she so unhappy? This seems a little odd. Friends mean a lot at this age. If she is being ostracised by some pupils, does it matter if she has friends? Surely friends stick together so the behaviour of others is minimised and eventually is irrelevant.

Is she really underperforming due to bullying? Or is she just finding the work tougher? Is settling into another school likely to be straightforward? Other schools can have unpleasant characters too and learning to shrug off unwanted comments is a necessary part of growing up. If she is getting cold feet, is her current school as bad as she has painted it?

I would be torn too! Not sure I have been any help! I think you need to discuss every possible nuance of this with your DD and let her decide - whatever she thinks, support it. Make it clear that there is no changing after the decision is made!

I gather that ab initio Spanish is very common, and some Universities even offer French from scratch these days! It's all changed since my day!

Yes she has friends. The main bully was actually a friend she fell out with, and the ex-friend then tried (successfully for a while) to turn other girls/friends against her. It was a battle of strength. Only a few 'friends' were not swayed by the bully and stuck by her. They of course then got the cold shoulder from the bullies too. So it was an extremely unpleasant situation even with friends.

To be honest the 'friends' do seem to come and go and change quite a bit. She didn't go to the secondary with any friends from primary school, so friendships have taken a while to establish, and what seemed like firm friendships have crumbled. There does seem to be an awful lot of bitchiness at this school, but probably in general amongst girls this age.

I don't think her unhappiness is because she's finding it hard. She did well in Y7, and most subjects are mixed ability and she is above average, so shouldn't be struggling.

Now that the bullying/teasing etc seems to have been resolved by the school she seems much happier, so I truly believe that was the problem. Her English teacher said that when she walked into the classroom she looked like she really didn't want to be there. That's because the first faces she saw were the bullies.

DD does say she wants to stay with her friends and maybe move at the end of the year if there are still issues. That's not a great idea as 1 the school may not have a place then, and 2 friends have to,d me it's better to move now and get settled well before GCSE choices.

Friends here have said yes it will be hard in the short term but pay off in the longer term if I really feel the new school is a better option. DD has messaged someone she knows at the new school, who has given her nothing but positives, felt she would fit in well, and confirmed that there isn't a huge amount of meanness amongst the popular girls in their year at least. But of course she is bound to encounter unpleasant behaviour at some point and does need to be able to shrug some of it off at least.
But it's a bit different when a girl or group of girls is turning everyone against you. That is very hard to handle.

I'm swinging towards the new school as I truly thinks it's better, will be better for DD as a community (languages aside) and think that may outweigh more short term concerns of instability and leaving friends she hasn't known for that long anyway (what is it, 15 months).
And there is always social media (worst luck), get togethers and out of school activities as ways of keeping up with friends from her old school.
Mind you, at the moment it's 3 to 1 so I'm outvoted!

What you describe is so common in Y8! There are children who want to be the queen bee and have "wannabes". The wannabes like the queen bee so much, they listen to her and common sense, and former friends, goes out of the window. It is a loose gang culture. Sometimes the followers do realise they are making a mistake and start being less directed by the queen bee. I am sure lots of parents can tell you about being on the receiving end of them. Still not sure what to say but go with your Dds instinct. I am not sure the end of Y8 is too late.

Wannabees...

Good thing I'm reading the book then!

Tbh, especially if this stuff is so common, I'm more concerned about the academic issues.

We will see how DD feels about it all this w/e.
She is meeting up with some kids she knows at the possible new school on Saturday. Maybe they will be able to give her a better feel for the school.

I'd move her if you can possibly get her on board with the move. Some very big schools can be great but if you had to struggle for two months to get to the bottom of a pretty normal situation, this one isn't. She may have friends but if that didn't protect her in this case, she doesn't have the kind of network that might make it worth staying for: move her, and be ready to facilitate her staying in touch with individuals.

Languages are among the easiest thing to keep going with outside school. Maybe encourage her to make a daily 20 min commitment to whichever language she gives up (comparable to the minimum commitment to a musical instrument, which many children have) and use it to continue progress using Duolingo, listening to podcasts, writing to a penfriend, whatever's appropriate. You don't say whether you're in a GCSE/A level system or something else, but if she will be doing A levels, it's entirely possible, with consistent work, for her to be at a level where she can do both languages at A level even if she only has GCSE in one, and maybe at that stage you might be able to persuade the school to be more flexible. Even if not, it'd make a good story for a university personal statement in due course.

Relaxitllbeok (great name!), it's very strange as the school she is in is meant to be an amazing school. There is so much going on in all fields and it does look very impressive and a world of opportunity. They win everything in sport, do fantastically well in debating and other more academic pursuits. As a sporty but fairly bright child, we all thought it would be the perfect school for DD. But something has certainly gone very wrong. Perhaps some schools are incredible until there is a problem.
In a meeting I had with the deputy head he admitted there had been at least 3 counts of failure to communicate with us by the school eg when DD was underperforming and it wasn't highlighted.

My impression is that the school has its hands full with GCSE grading/curriculum changes (it has been very fast to try and devise a new internal system to match, which is a lot of work and is constantly evolving) , an expansion in numbers this year and a site expansion next year.
Perhaps it's bitten off more than it can chew and some of its former strengths (communication supposedly being one) have been lost along the way. Most think the opportunities offered by the huge site expansion (taking over the site of the next door school) are positive and maybe they will be in the long run. But at the moment it may be taking its toll.

In my weeks of trying to get answers about falling grades I've had so many contradictions between members of staff and have now given up. In fact the school has told me to forget it and move on! Not impressive. A schoo, should be able to explain how grades are arrived at and why they are going down. Unfortunately I've lost confidence in the school with all of this.

Added to which are systems we don't agree with like using expected minimum grades rather than targets - not very aspirational as they are low and child and school feel satisfied if reached and don't try to exceed them. A highe target surely stretches a child more.
Plus the decision at the start of this academic year to make a certain subject a compulsory GCSE in Y9!! We are totally against this decision as it means hard work in a subject DD is poor in and will not continue possibly to the detriment of her studies in more important core subjects, plus the kids are simply not ready to for GCSEs so young. This is a mixed ability cohort.
It has been downhill all term with this school and just one thing after another that I am discussing with them. Of course our mindset now is so negative that we jump on anything the school does wrong!
I am ready for a change even if DD isn't!

Anyway, thanks for your views. Yes you are probably right about languages being easier than most subjects to carry on yourself. In fact I did Italian evening classes in the sixth form as I loved languages and hadn't had the chance to do another in addition to French. It is a shame though as those are the subjects she enjoys and gets high grades in without much effort!

I would agree with you about the friendship groups. I think they are still relatively fluid. She says she thinks she is just starting to get more settled, perhaps because she has seen who her real friends are. She can be a bit naive and not the best judge of character. We need to keep encouraging her to try and find find kind, loyal friends. She is a social butterfly and I sometimes think she would be better off with a few really close friends.

Regarding a school move, it helps enormously that she does know a few kids that go there, though not that well, but it's a start. A couple went from her primary plus a few she has met at sports tournaments. Let's hope they are encouraging when she sees them tomorrow.

I do think a well run school half the size of the former one with no major changes like expansion going on is more likely to be on the ball on communication, and monitoring of their pupils academically and pastorally. The possible new school is still fairly large (130 or so per year group) so Not so small that there will be insufficient GCSE choices or ECAs. It doesn't do some less academic subjects like media studies at GCSE it's true, but that's a positive in our view given that DD was planning to take this option as she had been to,d it was easy!

Move her. She can keep her languages going in her spare time -- if you can afford private school you can afford a Spanish tutor. Everything else points to a move.

Hi ColdBrew,
No English speaking State schools int he country we live in, so no option but to go private unfortunately! But I agree with you - there are other means of learning a language outside school.
The discussion will continue this evening (we have to confirm tomorrow) but so far I am well and truly outvoted by DH and DD.

I would go to the new school and possibly look to do the other language as an extra curricular out of school. In fact have you checked whether there are languages offered as clubs instead at the school even if not part of the main curriculum.

Our school offers Italian, Greek, Mandarin and Portuguese as after school clubs leading to GCSE after one or two years,

Unfortunately no they do not offer other languages as clubs. However they are still learning two MFL as they all have to learn Arabic anyway to Y9.
The school said she would have to get a private tutor.

Anyway, we already made our decision, which was not to move at present.
I still voted for a move, but was outvoted.

We will see if DD can make things work where she is. She is smiling again so the bullying seems to be resolved. If she is happy there now (and continues to be) then I guess that is more important than my gripes about th school size, expansion, communication etc. I will just have to not think about it!

The grading issues are going to be the same wherever she goes given the untrue and untested nature of the new GCSe grading system. All schools are making it up as they go along until they have some real hard data to go in from the actual new exams.

Glad you've managed to make a decision. You've given DD a chance to change things at the present time and you can always review things if you really need to.

By the way, my DD went to secondary with girls she knew and obviously met new ones. Year 7 was the worst, generally she had a good bunch of new and old friends but they was a falling out with one girl who let her down, this girl then turned quite a few against her (who as it happens no longer speak to this other girl but are DD's long standing friends). Also, she had issues with another girl from primary in Year 7 and 9. We reported matters in Year 9 and the school dealt with them immediately. Now in Year 11, she doesn't speak to the first girl and her and her other friends don't particular like the second, but what she does have is a large group of lovely friends.

As time moves on, it seems in my DD's school they form closer friendships with their own sort and slowly the nasty ones or ones they haven't got anything in common disappear into other groups of their own sort.