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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Would you query this with school? Maths sets in yr 7

54 replies

Strumpetpumpet · 21/09/2016 20:17

DD has just started at a lovely secondary modern & has found out today that she's in set 6 (out of 9) for maths. I'm unsure whether to leave well alone or to query it with school; her sats score for maths was 112 & she missed out on a grammar place by 10 marks (without any tutoring) so I would have thought she'd be in set 2 or 3 at least, given the "top" set have been creamed off by the grammars?
I don't want to sound precious or be "that parent" but I suppose I'm wondering if there has been a mistake? I've told her if she thinks she's in the wrong set, the best thing to do is work really hard & show school that she is capable of being in a higher set.
Would you query it or leave well alone? Thx

OP posts:

noblegiraffe · 22/09/2016 08:37

A student who scored well above average on her maths SATs appears to have been put in a well below average maths group, in a school where the brightest have already been taken out. Why would you wait to ask whether it's a mistake? If they then say 'actually that's top set on the B half of the year' then at least you'd know!

GoblinLittleOwl · 22/09/2016 08:47

Just ring and ask for information: it may be that the sets are numbered in reverse order, they are mixed ability, or some other reason. A civil enquiry won't put anyone's back up, but it will make the school aware that you are 'interested.' See how the work progresses, then if you feel your daughter is in the wrong set, present evidence and discuss it, say after half-term.

olderthanyouthink · 22/09/2016 08:50

This happened to me when I started secondary school 9 years ago.
I think I was put in set 8 for maths when my friends who had the same SATs level for maths was in set 1. The head of maths was checking in on the classes on the second day and asked if we all got level 2/3(i think) a few of us looked round and were stunned. We were moved into set 3 the next day because that was the highest that had space, week later some set 2s were moved down and we were allowed to take their places. It took about a year to get me into the set I should have been in from the start because set 1 was already over full and apparently it wouldn't have been fair to bump someone down because it turned out there was someone better that them after all.

It's important to be in a class that is right for you and is a bit challenging, it can be tedious when it's too easy and make you not like the whole subject.

Seeline · 22/09/2016 08:50

Two points - on what basis were they set? If they did tests when they started their new school, she may just have had an off day. If they re-shuffle sets on a regular basis it shouldn't be a problem.

Secondly - at DS's school they have 6 maths groups, but groups 1&2 are same ability, 3&4 are same etc. So whilst the group is named 6, for timetabling and/or class size the first 2-3 groups, may be same ability etc so she may actually be in a different ability group set.

I would wait until half term to see how things pan out.

PumpkinPie9 · 22/09/2016 08:58

I think people who are "that parent" are people who are rude or aggressive or people who constantly badger them about every tiny thing, not people who enquire politely about stuff that needs to be asked.

Traalaa · 22/09/2016 09:26

At DS's school they did take SATs, etc into account, but set far more score by the tests they ran over the first few weeks of year 7. Their logic was that a lot of kids forget stuff/ are crammed for SATs, etc so aren't secure. So maybe just double check with your DD before you wade in.

DragonitesRule · 22/09/2016 12:55

DD was put in the middle set on arrival at high school. I was a little concerned but let it play out. After two weeks they did baseline assessments on all the children and swiftly moved her up to the top set after. Maybe this is something like that and they are just doing their baseline tests and will review after? No harm in asking though. I'd email her form tutor and ask.

a7mints · 22/09/2016 13:57

There is no harm in asking, I think you should do!
Either she has been put in the wrong set or the set numbering is random so the children 'don't know' (haha)
School is not a popularity contest, you need to do what you need to do for your child.

ihearttc · 22/09/2016 16:06

Noblegiraffe-may be you could my mind at rest as well.

DS1 got 111 in his Maths SATS yet his school don't set for maths at all in Y7 and Y8. He has just come home again completely fed up as he is bored in Maths lessons.

How do you differentiate within Maths lessons?

HereIAm20 · 22/09/2016 16:27

If your DD has gone to a senior school that has say 10 feeder primaries feeding into it then there will be 10 other top/2nd sets feeding it so there will be other children possibly scoring higher.

For example, a lady I know went in to complain ask why her DS was not in top set when he got 96% and level 5 on his SATS to find out that all the children in top set got 999% or 100% and a level 6. So it will be relative to the other children in the school year. It is worth asking though but be prepared to accept that they have set correctly especially as you are pleased with her English setting.

HereIAm20 · 22/09/2016 16:28

that is of course 99% not 999%

noblegiraffe · 22/09/2016 18:14

It's a secondary modern so highly unlikely to be stuffed with level 6 students!

ihearttc I'm sorry I can't really reassure you as we teach mixed ability for as short a time as possible in Y7 before setting because it's really hard to differentiate in maths as the brighter kids will be learning totally different topics to the less able. There are teachers who I've seen saying that they love teaching mixed ability, they seem to do it by using lots of open-ended investigations, but to be honest I don't know how they manage it. I'd be concerned that your DS is complaining that he's bored as they might manage by teaching to the middle. I did have a student in Y7 the other day who I caught reading a book under the table because he'd finished the work. He hadn't said that he'd finished and if he had I had a worksheet of extension questions he could have done, so be sure to tell your DS to say he has finished/ask for more work if he has. It's possible that they're still getting their heads around what their classes can do, but if this persists over the next few weeks it might be worth phoning to ask them how they extend the more able. If they teach mixed ability for two years they'll be well used to the question!

Original poster

Strumpetpumpet · 22/09/2016 18:41

Thank you all, yes I am going to ask for clarification. I've been snowed under at work today & just haven't had chance. She had maths today for the first time in her new set and said it was "really easy but kind of fun" !
Thanks all will let you know what they say xx

OP posts:

ihearttc · 22/09/2016 18:51

Thank you-thats pretty much what I thought that they would just teach to the majority of pupils. He did ask apparently for harder stuff but was told that was all there was...I believe him as well cause there is no way he'd have been content just doing that all lesson.

They have a parents consultation at the beginning of October so will have a word then...Im by no means suggesting he is any kind of maths genius but he loves maths to the point where he went for extra maths lessons before school for fun (strange boy!) so Im really concerned he is just going to switch off entirely.

EllyMayClampett · 22/09/2016 19:01

Good advice from noble. Of course query it. No reason to be shy.

a7mints · 27/09/2016 14:55

ihearttc I think schools generally are pretty poor at being able to discern mathematical potential.School maths generally does not require much mathematical insight and thinking.DS2 who got an offer to do maths at Cambridge was in the middle of 5 sets up to 6th form at a GS.They are now looking at different ways to discern mathematical talent and set kids better.DS1 also was in the bottom set , yet managed an A* at A level in both maths and physics

Badbadbunny · 27/09/2016 15:50

Some schools can be poor at setting, so definitely query it.

I was in the top Maths set throughout secondary school but wasn't really very good at all. I was a B grade student in years 1 and 2 then dropped to D in years 3 and 4 and ended up with a D grade O level. I was just floundering and really didn't have a clue in the O level years, no surprise really when there were A, B and C grade students in the same class being taught to a higher level than I could cope with.

Trouble with that school was that the year group was split into two and then each half had a top, middle and bottom set, so six sets in total, but two "top" sets so a much broader ability range. Would have been far better if the year wasn't split into two as they'd then have had a real top set at maybe A/B level and a lower top set for C/D level.

d270r0 · 27/09/2016 21:43

It is very likely that the students are in mixed ability sets at the moment, the school will test them themselves later on in the term and then reset them accordingly, rather than relying on the sats results. The set is called set 6, and will be after they reset them but will have very few of the current students left in it! With that Sats result she is very likely to end up in one of the top sets. I am sure you could get her to ask her maths teacher, or write a letter for her to give to her maths teacher to confirm this.

Original poster

Strumpetpumpet · 28/09/2016 20:14

Sorry it's taken me so long to update but I wanted to let you know I did query this with school & the head of maths phoned me to explain. Apparently they have set them based on 3 results; sats, cat tests they sat in July, and a test they took at the start of September. Apparently my DD scored quite low on one of them, which skewed her results, but school had her marked as "one to watch" because they think she's probably in the wrong set. they review every half term anyway, but will move in between reviews if they think there's a strong enough case. She was lovely and I do feel reassured that they will keep an eye on things. Thanks so much for all your advice xx

OP posts:

Natsku · 28/09/2016 20:20

Nothing wrong with being 'that parent' in this instance, my dad was 'that parent' when I was wrongly put in the bottom set after moving schools and I'm so glad he spoke up as otherwise I'd have been stuck in a disruptive class learning nothing. Do ask to clarify as it may have been a mistake, if not then fair enough and she has a chance to move up if she works hard (I assume, does she?)

Natsku · 28/09/2016 20:22

Oh crap, didn't read the second page. We'll done for checking, always better to know for sure.

regularbutpanickingabit · 28/09/2016 20:44

Glad you had the conversation and actually the school approach sounds extremely reassuring.

Haggisfish · 28/09/2016 20:51

That's good. I'm a teacher and actually really like it when parents get in touch. I am also absolutely 'that parent' about my child. Not unpleasantly so but I will always make an effort to meet teachers and ask them for a quick update outside of parents evenings.

allwornout0 · 29/09/2016 09:00

Where I live, due to the farce of a new 11 plus test, there are now quite a number of children in secondary schools (not sure what a secondary modern is) that have always been 'grammar level' in primary.
You may find that there are more children than you realize needing to be in the 'top sets'.

RaspberryIce · 29/09/2016 13:30

What have they done to the 11+?

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