Oxfordshire votes to reject grammar schools

[noblegiraffe]

Oxfordshire County Council has voted to reject any plans for new grammar schools with only 14 out of 63 councillors in favour of their reintroduction.

Apparently a Conservative councillor had told the local paper that Oxfordshie would be first in the queue to apply for new grammars, prompting the vote.

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/oxfordshire-first-council-reject-mays-grammar-school-plan

A niece and nephew received a brilliant 'Catholic' grammar school education . My niece has just left Liverpool University with a first in French and Business and my Nephew is at Warwick doing Politics and International studies.

One of my Nieces and one of my Nephews

I have 1 Niece and Nephew from my Brother and the same from my sister .
The two mentioned are my brothers.

Brothers Children before we have a 'PUZZLE'

If you had nieces and nephews who had got great results from comps would you be all in favour of those too?

sandyholme so was the positive outcome because the school was Catholic or because it was a Grammar?

I have a neice & nephew who went to comps. in Knowlsey who are currently at Liverpool University.

Its difficult to say , because my whole family have been focused around grammar schools 'for ever' both here in Essex and Manchester.

Perhaps i am being a bit 'Snobby' here but i kind of like how the grammar school system has produced time and again for my family (me being the exception to the rule).

P.S I am an Atheist though i like 'Faith' schools ! I could do God in small doses because good faith schools offer so much than Religion .

sandyholme I fully understand. I have one cousin who went to the same school as I did and went to Oxford. I have another cousin who went to the same school as I did and went to Cambridge (the brother of the cousin who went to oxford). I have cousins who went to grammar schools in the Wirral who went to Durham and Edinburgh University. I have cousin who went private. Actually the list goes on and on. However, what I have found is that they have all made very different choices, have different interests and have pursued different careers. Who'd have thought?

Knowsley does not have any sixth form provision !

Well done to your Niece and Nephew...

Actually if you look at Liverpool with the exception of Blue Coat the best schools in the City are the Catholic Schools. So there must be some correlation between religion and helping pupils achieve their best.

Though unfortunately the Bexleyheath disgrace might cast doubt on that , because two of the schools involved were Catholic.

sandyholme Wed 21-Sep-16 23:26:50 I am an Atheist though i like 'Faith' schools

I'm sure you would have loved my school. It had a lovely chapel, we were taught some of our lessons by nuns (a legacy) and you could have rubbed shoulders with the likes of Kenny Evert and Cherie Blair (age permitting of course). There again, perhaps not, it wasn't a Grammar school.

sandyholme Wed 21-Sep-16 23:35:33 Knowsley does not have any sixth form provision

I'm back in a few weeks, I will ask them how they managed it.

Actually if you look at Liverpool with the exception of Blue Coat the best schools in the City are the Catholic Schools.

How many schools in the area are none faith?

Though unfortunately the Bexleyheath disgrace might cast doubt on that , because two of the schools involved were Catholic.

I can't comment, my DH was the one who grew up in the area, not me.

I just looked up Liverpool and I can't say that the Catholic provision looks like it particularly brings out the best in people.

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/?schoollevel=IsSecondary&searchtype=search-by-la&la=341&laname=Liverpool&selectionState=0%2C0%2C0&tab=list

The best of what Liverpool has to offer with the exception of Blue Coat or Belvedere .

Those two schools are 'vital' for Liverpool otherwise there would be very few decent schools available in Liverpool.

Belvedere used to be a private girls school (Esther Mcvey ) has gradually via the sutton trust at first paying 'fees ' for disadvantaged families has become an Academy.

noblegiraffe now you know why I don't understand the arguments about faith schools. Do we really need more selective faith schools?

sandyholme Yet plenty of DCs in the area get places at Liverpool University. Not sure they all comd from Blue Coats or Belvedere though.

I have 2 neices at Belvedere.

Actually I don't, I have 2 nieces there (sorry about the typos.).

in Oxfordshire there is a huge elephant in the room where secondary schools are concerned

BUSES

shire counties currently provide free bus transport in big catchments
Oxfordshire has been struggling and has amended its rules to work on distance rather than pure catchment

the introduction of Grammars would thoroughly mess with the system
without any funding from the muppets in Whitehall

Glad you said that Talking - I was going to come on to make the same point. Outside Oxford City, Abingdon and Banbury, most of the towns have one school. The towns are mostly about 10 miles apart. So say you designate Wallingford as the Grammar for the south of the County. Do you then start bussing in those who pass from Didcot, Faringdon, Wantage, Thame? And then start bussing those who don't pass out from Wallingford? It would be a nightmare logistically.

As it stands there are constant protests in the press from parents whose free transport is threatened.

Please don't say that it used to work - in most cases the towns mentioned had a small grammar and a small secondary mod (as did Wheatley, Mrs May's alma mater). What has happened over the years is that they have mostly consolidated onto one site, with either the land being sold off and built on, or as in Wheatley, the old Sec Mod being put to other use.

In Bucks, children only get transport to the nearest school. If you are selected to go to a grammar, but a secondary modern is nearer, they only give transport to the nearest school, even if it is the sec mod! They get round this by cunningly calling them "all ability schools". Another form of selecting out less well off families, although most dig deep to access the grammar schools.

Do we really need more selective faith schools?

To understand that you need to know that the Catholic Church is refusing to open any new schools while the 50% rule stands. The government presumably wants their money.

Wheatley is close to Thame though, and Lord Williams is now over 2000 children. It is very expensive to run lots of small schools. The breadth of curriculum suffers greatly too. The Bucks transport model could be adopted by Oxfordshire. However, if the law changes to allow grammars, it will be for the comprehensive academies to decide, not the LA. In Bucks, all grammars and secondary moderns are academies. This is not an uncommon scenario.

Jewish schools feel the same. The money is needed but successive governments trumpet faith schools, dressed up as choice. Cameron asked for the 50% rule to aid real choice, but the faiths picked up the ball and refused to play, in their loving and inclusive way!!!

It is very expensive to run lots of small schools.
The county went comprehensive before I moved here, but I think that in part is why - so that it could have one school in town instead of two. Even now, significant numbers of children are being bussed to the nearest comprehensive.

They get round this by cunningly calling them "all ability schools".

They are all ability schools and are able to offer a 'decent' education for every ability level.

The local authority offer 'transport' to the nearest suitable school , whats the problem!
The cost of bus fare is a small price to pay for accessing a grammar school!

Nothing comes for free and if some parents give up a selective education because of 'bus' fare that is unfortunate for the child.

However, if that is the case the child would not be happy at the grammar anyhow knowing they are unable to access the extra curricular activities .

The cost of bus fare is a small price to pay for accessing a grammar school!

I take it you don't live in a rural county. Bus services often don't exist or run very infrequently. So if the county wasn't prepared to pay for transport it could well mean parents having to get together to organise their own services. This won't favour the less well off.