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Secondary education

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School wants to fingerprint the pupils!

50 replies

CrazyforCrochet · 14/06/2016 19:55

My DD got home from school today and showed me a letter that said they want to introduce a fingerprinting ID for school meals. Has anyone else out there heard of such a thing?! At the moment they have photo cards with a contactless chip that identifies them and ties in with an online account for school meals. They say that too many pupils are loosing them and so they want to bring in a "Biometric System" and use pupils' fingerprints to identify them and their lunch money account. I just don't like the idea of it at all - my DD being fingerprinted!

You can opt out of course. I wonder how much this system is costing the school too - it cannot be cheap. I don't see how they think this will be cheaper than replacing lost dinner cards as they charge pupils £2 a time to replace them anyway. What do other mums think of it?

OP posts:
KayJBee · 14/06/2016 20:22

The school I work at uses a fingerprint for school lunch payment. Seems to work very well. As others have said, it stops kids having anything to lose, can't be stolen and saves them having to carry cash in school. staff use it too with no problems. I know my cousins had it when they were at scfhool, they are in their mid twenties now so the technology has been around in schools for quite a long time.

TrioTrio · 14/06/2016 20:26

I think it's brilliant.

NicknameUsed · 14/06/2016 20:30

DD's school does this. They introduced it when she first started there. It is an excellent system. Children can't lose money/cards or be bullied for it. Most secondary schools round here have a biometric system now. I just top up the money on her finger via Parentpay.

CoreyTaylorsMask · 14/06/2016 20:40

My kid's secondary school uses it - it's fab. My youngest has severe allergies and if she uses her 'thumb' to buy anything an alert box comes up on the screen and the canteen staff check she's allowed whatever she's buying.

CrazyforCrochet · 14/06/2016 20:47

Wow I had no idea that it was so common in schools. I feel a lot better about it now - I thought it was actual fingerprints they were storing like if you had them done by the police! I was going to opt out, but thanks for all your advice and replies.... I think I'll opt in now!

OP posts:
JackandDiane · 14/06/2016 20:50

fgs

School wants to fingerprint the pupils!
TresDesolee · 14/06/2016 20:53

My DS's school does this and now he's wanted on three continents it is fine

NeckguardUnbespoke · 14/06/2016 20:55

I'll try to explain hashes, because it's good for people to know (they're used for, for example, storing passwords).

Imagine you take a word and encode it by counting 1 for a, 2 for b, and so on to 26 for z. That would mean that every word would have a number. The numbers wouldn't be unique: for example, and and dna would be the same, as would any pair of anagrams, as well as pairs like band and cnd (sorry I'm using acronyms, but I have to think these things up). So if I gave you the code for band, you wouldn't, and couldn't (provably so, if we want to be formal) know if it was band or cnd that was the original word, because 2+1+14+4=21 and 3+14+4=21.

This would be a "hash" function: hash, because it makes nonsense. I could store the hash value of your password, and you would have to find a word to type which matched it: I would compute the hash, and compare it.

It wouldn't be a secure hash function, because it is relatively trivial to create a word for the number 21 just by trying small words from the dictionary until you find something close to 20-ish, and then changing a few letters. Secure hashes are like hashes (many inputs create the same output) but with several additional properties. Firstly, the distance between hashes of similar inputs is random, so if you are looking for a word to match a particular value, and have a word that gives a similar value, it doesn't help. And secondly, as a corollary of the first, it's not feasible to find the word or words matching a given value of the function other than by searching all possible combinations.

So what is done for fingerprint scanners is that the fingerprint image is taken, in various slightly different versions (to allow for not having your finger straight) and reduced to its essential features. Secure hashes of those values are stored with your name. When you put your finger on the scanner, the image is reduced to its essential features, hashed, and the hashes are searched through to find one that matches and therefore gives your name. The only way to find the essential features that match that hash is to try all combinations of essential features, and many of them will give the same hash anyway (note to nerds: these hash functions deliberately collide at non-trivial probabilities).

TrioTrio · 14/06/2016 20:55

The other good thing about it is tHat the children who are on free school meals use exactly the same system.

HSMMaCM · 14/06/2016 20:58

DD pays by finger it's great. All I have to say is "have you got your finger?" I can also see what she is buying and top the the balance easily.

Arkwright · 14/06/2016 22:43

Most of the schools here use the same system. Keep a check on the balance on your account. My Dd put some money on her account at the machine at school but it didn't register.

LunaLoveg00d · 14/06/2016 22:48

We have this and it's fab. My 13 year old who loses everything hasn't lost his finger! You can add funds to the account online, and they can access fod when they need it without needing cash on them.

AYD2MITalkTalk · 14/06/2016 22:51

I don't have kids. Are they all touching their grubby 'orrible germy fingers against the same bit of glass right before eating?

MrsJoeyMaynard · 14/06/2016 22:53

The only concern I would have with this would be about the reliability of the system.

My iPhone has an option for unlocking it with fingerprint ID. I've tried setting it up a few times. It can't recognise my fingerprints from one day to the next.

I'd want to know what happens if the school system fails to recognise a pupil who's fingerprints have been registered on the system.

RaisingSteam · 14/06/2016 22:53

Kids, and everything they touch, including schools, are already 'horrible and germy. By lunchtime the fingerprint scanner will be the least of their problems.

blimeyalldecentnamesaregone · 14/06/2016 22:54

Yes I agree. We have it and it works fine. DSD had it when she was at school 15 years ago although they were one of the first to be fair.

Never had a problem here at all.

blimeyalldecentnamesaregone · 14/06/2016 22:55

In our school when the kids put their finger up it brings their photo up to the dinner lady who can immediately see if it's linked to the wrong account (which rarely happens but gets spotted this way before it is charged)).

RaisingSteam · 14/06/2016 22:55

My son said they had to scan their finger from multiple sides/angles so it maximised likelihood of recognising it - there have been no such problems in the first year.

AYD2MITalkTalk · 14/06/2016 22:56

Fair enough Steam Grin

It's the main reason I don't like using touchscreen check-in at the GP... I may be overly-sensitive when it comes to contagion.

SanityClause · 14/06/2016 23:01

DD2 has this.

When her account is getting low, she says, "can you put some money on my finger? " Grin

Permanentlyexhausted · 14/06/2016 23:06

Had it here for quite a while. Just yesterday I added some money to DS's "thumb".

Couchpotato3 · 14/06/2016 23:10

One of the schools I teach in has this, and I like it - very easy and convenient, and it's used for all sorts of things - doors, photocopiers, canteen.

HereIAm20 · 15/06/2016 16:20

Son has it at his school to access certain areas of the school. all normal!

SAHDthatsall · 15/06/2016 16:28

Yes same here DS accesses different parts of school and buildings such as the pavilion and changing rooms, music building sports hall etc. Don't think it's used for lunch and not used for payments - they can just buy kit and stuff at the school shop and put it on our account (a football last week apparently Grin )

Minime85 · 15/06/2016 16:48

Very common in schools now

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