UKMT Junior Maths Challenge - question

[incorrigible]

Am I right in assuming it's mostly Year 8s that get through to the Olympiad?

Q1-15 of the Grey Kangaroo could be suitable for the Junior Kangaroo. The JK only started last year so only 1 past paper is available. The GK has been there for years so there are many of them available.

Q1-15 5 marks each, Q16-25, 6 marks each. So If you answer 11 question right from easier ones, you get 55 points, which equals to bronze. If you answer first 15 questions right(75 points) plus 1 right from harder #16~25, you qualify for gold. Is that right?

kitnkaboodle
For pupils that start doing Olympiad paper for the first time, my advice to them is they need to pretend to write their solution like a story.

While training pupil for the lower level Olympiads, I always emphasis that pupils shouldn't aim to just get the right answers but about how they get there, looking at each step to find a more elegant solution. After each question, they need to step back and review the question first instead of attempting another one straight away.

For pupils with high ability that can and really want to do it, additional teaching, lots of practice plus correction/input from someone who has done Olympiad Maths will go a long way.

Just found out that DS didn't do well this year (5 marks off a bronze). It is a bit frustrating as he got a bronze or silver last year and finished year 6 with a level 6B. Maths has always come to him naturally, however, he's had a poor Maths teacher two years in a row and I think it is really starting to show, unfortunately, so really hope next year's teacher will be better.

You can't have it all, he wasn't so confident in English but had an amazing teacher two years in a row too and she has upped his ability greatly, so much that his English level is the same than Maths when there isn't a doubt he is much more a natural mathematician! Really shows how good teaching impacts on ability.

Good luck to all doing Kangaroo and Olympiad this coming week. DS made gold but not the later rounds, though a few in his Y8 class made K and a couple O. I think a couple of Y7s have too. In fact it was always Q1 that was most likely to trip him up in the first block, as BIDMAS was the least likely thing to stick in his head, while he had fewer problems with the horrible counting and logic things later on.

irvine... If you got 1-15 right and one from later and also NO mistakes elsewhere in later you could get a gold. Questions 16 on are negatively marked to penalise guessing.

I also think it's a mistake to not let kids outside top sets have a go. You have no idea whether there is some naturally gifted person hiding somewhere, bored out of their mind with normal classwork and underperforming, who will shine in this test. Probably rather rare but worth a wider net.

So, what happens if the child don't do all the questions except for 1 after Q16, and got Q1-15 right and one from harder ones right? Does the child still get gold, or get points taken away for leaving questions unanswered?

If they don't attempt the questions, they don't lose any points.They only lose marks if they attempt and get it wrong, losing 1m for Q16-20, 2 for Q21 to 25. This is to stop pupils from guessing too much in the last 10 questions and get to the next round undeservedly and then get found out :)

So Q1-15 correct plus 1 later question correct would give them gold, as long as they don't attempt any other questions and get them wrong.

On the 2nd section you only lose marks for an incorrect answer, it for leaving unanswered.

I printed out the olympiad papers, solutions and pupil answers from the last couple of years and gave them to ds1. He looked at the section B questions and was just totally stumped "how do I answer that though?".
He had a look through some of the solutions and pupil answers and has been practicing and is now confident that he can have a go - if I hadn't done this he'd be sitting in doing the paper next week thinking wtaf!! We have also talked about technique, reading all the section b questions and concentrating on the ones he feels he can do etc.
Why on earth the school haven't don't this I have no idea. At the very least they could have emailed parents to let them know the child was invited to take the paper, and given a link to the past papers.

When we started looking at them ds1 read one of the questions and I said so tell me how you'd solve it, and his spoken answer was almost word for word what was written in the model solution. His problem has always been showing his working though! So he's needed input on how and why he needs to do this for these type of questions.

Ignore the badly written first part of my last post in favour of the poster before me who put it much more correctly (and eloquently!).

Thank you!
And I agree with roguedad, that children outside of top set should be allowed to have a go.

You have no idea whether there is some naturally gifted person hiding somewhere, bored out of their mind with normal classwork and underperforming, who will shine in this test

If they are naturally gifted and bored with normal class work then why are they not in the top set?

You can only enter the challenge in groups of 25, schools have to prioritise that funding for pupils who are most likely to get something out of it.

Are school not allowed to make copies of paper and let children have a go unofficially?

I think it's possible there might be naturally gifted person hiding. If the child's parents aren't interested and have no access to other resources, and school work is too easy and child doesn't know how to put a effort in. Just do what is expected with minimum effort.Teacher assumes the child is average and never give them any challenge. Isn't that possible?

No. The kid would do really well in tests if the school work is easy and get promoted to top set.

There are undeniably brighter kids in lower sets but the reason they're in lower sets is because they piss about, don't attempt to learn the stuff and their performance in tests is mediocre. They are the sort of kid who are more likely to use the multi-choice answer sheet to draw a penis than display genius and would not engage with it.

Don't forget we also do CATs testing of kids in Y7 to spot the really bright ones. If there's a genius in a lower set, it's not because they are being denied the opportunity to shine.

I see. Thank you, noble.

It also depends on the teachers as well. Not many teachers have experience of Maths competitions as students themselves. Very few would have done Olympiad competitions, let alone competing at national level or at the International Maths Olympiad.

In a normal school, there are at most a couple of kids in each year group really have the aptitude, skills and determination to do Olympiad Maths. Teacher's time is limited so they have to prioritise their workload and providing time for a couple of pupils is probably not high in that list.

In other countries, there are specialist school and after school clubs for this kind of thing and pupils are not laughed at because they attend an after school Maths club instead of a sport club.

Gosh noble.. that is really cynical. When I was a maths tutor at Oxford and professor in London I met a worrying number of able mathematicians who had never been recognised as having any talent while at school until a chance change of teacher or competition or project that had caused them to engage their brain. I realise my sampling was from a population that was necessarily a good one, but I'm far from convinced about the talent identification process in schools. I don't have the data to back it up, but experience suggests there is a problem. I'd like to see the net thrown wider and the "good at maths is uncool" culture challenged.

I'm guessing that was a while ago, or that those kids were in top sets anyway, roguedad.

But anyway, the maths challenges are unlikely to be the competition that's going to spark an interest in a previously disinterested pupil. The kids are herded into a hall for an hour to sit an exam that requires knowledge of the school curriculum. If they were good at that sort of thing, they'd be in the sets that take it.

If they don't attempt the questions, they don't lose any points.They only lose marks if they attempt and get it wrong, losing 1m for Q16-20, 2 for Q21 to 25. This is to stop pupils from guessing too much in the last 10 questions and get to the next round undeservedly and then get found out smile
That's very interesting and explains why DS did worse this year than last. I asked him if he answered any of the harder questions and he said that last year, he only answered when he was certain of the answer, but this year, he thought the whole thing was boring, so decided to at least try to attempt to answer the question, even if he wasn't sure, hence him losing points.

I did congratulate him though as one of the values I am trying to install in my children is not to give up when they are not sure and to always try to do their best, so I much rather he scored less having tried than just taking a 'I won't bother' approach.

I have to say I am surprised that any such competition would indeed encourage kids not to at least try to make an effort. It's not about guessing but about taking a risk after doing your best to find the answer.

Noble, or any other maths teachers, I have a question.
My ds has been hooked on AoPS videos, but I noticed the way they teach some concept is slightly different to more traditional(?) method. I know AoPS is linked with AMC, the US version of UKMT. So are these good ways to expand understanding of maths? Or is it going to confuse the child if knowledge isn't secure?

artofproblemsolving.com/videos/prealgebra

The ones that I've seen on AoPS are very well explained and conceptually correct. They are better than many teachers' explanation.

However, they might be different to some teachers' understanding of the concept so pupils might be confused easily. it sometimes creates a problem. The child might think that his/her teacher does not have good subject knowledge and will doubt them and do not trust their teaching. This will create problems in class.

The other scenario is sometimes, teachers might tell pupils somethings but when they go further with Maths, they realise that is not true anymore. For example, when teaching surds, we teach them that they can not square root a negative number. it is correct in that context but if they go on to do Further Maths, they then realise that indeed they can. it does not mean that the teacher does not know his/her stuff but it just wasn't the right time.

I am having the same dilemma at the moment, as a parent but also as a teacher. Do I teach my child correctly and then they might be told something else completely different at school?

Thank you, GHGN. My ds loves maths, but I don't have any background of maths, so sometimes I tend to freak out.(And English isn't even my first language, which makes it even worse.)
I will keep your comment in my mind, and see how it goes. Thank you.

irvine how old is your DS? 8?
Having had a quick look at some of the videos, they do use some different notation, vocabulary and methods to the UK, but I suspect your DS would be able to cope with switching between the two.
The main problem if your DS is working your way through them, then he is covering maths which is way beyond the primary curriculum and is touching on higher GCSE stuff (simplifying surds for example). At some point, and soon, you are going to have to decide some sort of plan of action for him. Continuing with primary maths at school and doing these videos at home isn't going to work.

Noble, I am very aware of the problem. He find maths like a puzzle. He gets it and wants more. I really don't know how to deal with it, to be honest.

I know we discussed it on the G&T thread. I think you need to start going around private schools and saying 'this is what my DS can do, what can you offer him?'. He needs to spend time with someone who is an expert in the sort of maths he is learning, which, TBH is unlikely to be a primary teacher. Videos are all very well, but mathematical discussion is better.

Thank you noble.
I have listened to your advice you gave me in the past, and doing more of nrich kind of stuff with him when I can. And also he started learning musical instrument, so he isn't obsessed about maths like before.
But he does take lead on what he wants to learn normally(since I've got no clue about maths), and I thought AoPS was great, since it gives him different way of thinking.
mrz gave me the link for test for old NC levels 6/7/8 few month ago. He tried them, and he is already capable of some of the stuff from Lv8.
I really wish there was someone I can talk to in RL, about what to do with him.