English Baccalaureat

[GettinTrimmer]

I was reading a thread earlier on and someone said their dc are in an outstanding secondary school that is offering a more varied range of subjects to study, they are not just sticking to the EBacc.

My ds goes to an outstanding state secondary - he is OK with EBacc subjects and would be delighted if he could also do history (Religious Studies GCSE is compulsory), but if things stay the same my dd won't be able to do Art and PE, she's great at both, year 7 in September.

I am just wondering what the consequences for the school would be if they were to ignore the EBacc and offer more choice. I know they would not be high in the league tables. Out of interest, does anybody know if this would also threaten their outstanding status and funding etc?

"Why on earth couldn't one subject be for sheer pleasure like art, drama, music, dance???"

Why can't she?

Leading private schools have only ever done 9/10 GCSE's at most.

Bertrand - you are right that neither progress 8 nor EBACC demand triple science. You do have to have double though. And RE is required separately. The imposition of the EBACC and progress 8 on top of the RE requirement is an issue. They should probably have removed the RE requirement (although that would make me sad, I think RPE as it is often known now is a superb subject but, not necessarily any more meritorious than some of those being squeezed out).

Balletgirlmum music and drama are being cut in many schools. :( I think art is holding up a bit better (I could be wrong, I don't know any art teachers).

Janus so is she doing just seven gcses?

It always seems to come down to the languages in the end...

It's important to realise that when we talk about a humanities subject for ebacc the government means history or geography. My dd has no interest in those subjects. Luckily her school doesn't care about ebacc & she can choose RS as her humanities subject.

The same for ds's school.

And at both their schools if they don't choose RS as an option the compulsory part is included in a non examined PSHE course.

Sounds like a nice school Balletgirlmum. Are they not bothered about the league tables?

Uhtred I did strongly suspect the reduction in GCSEs to a total of 9 was due to the more 'rigorous' GCSEs. My dd will miss out, talented gymnast and feels inspired by interior design. Of course she can carry on with gymnastics out of school etc, but the balance will need to be redressed. I agree with those posters who say without inclusion of expressive arts we are less educated.

I have no problem with Religious Studies especially as it includes discussion about ethical issues but they should be able to choose something else. Really disappointing, I'm off to e-mail the school, but see this as more the government's fault

Dss school publicise more the fact they are top of the league tables in our area for A levels.

Dd goes to a specialist MDS school so whilst academics are important there is more of an emphasis on the arts.

So with 9 GCSEs you still have 4 choices after the EBacc subjects. RE is compulsory, but taking the exam is not. My ds, for example, is taking EBacc subjects plus performing arts, sport science, media studies and statistics. He could have done art or music instead of media studies.

Performing arts GCSE is being abolished though drama & music remain as separate subjects.

Compulsory subjects for all students here were maths, 2 x English, double or triple science, ethics & beliefs and ICT (safely out of the way in yr 9). Then they were given a choice of history, geography, computing, French or Spanish for one option. They could then chose 2 further options including the original list with music, drama, PE, art etc thrown in as well.

Options were selected in year 8, so from age 13 onwards DD hasn't been studying anything creative. She will end up with 10 GCSEs and a random ICT qualification. She'll be in the first year to take all new GCSEs. It does seem very narrow, speaking as someone with 13 O' levels.

No, English x2, Science x2, x1 language, Geography, maths, Religious Studies and then a 'guided' choice of History which he will hopefully get as he has no interest in arts subjects. So only 9. Your ds's school Bertrand offers more choice. There is very little choice for ds. He is OK with it. My dd will miss out unless things change. Someone upthread somewhere said a lot of schools are doing this, narrowing down choice as the new GCSEs are more difficult.

My ds's school is doing compulsory Religious Studies as a full GCSE as mentioned earlier on, many schools are doing the same. Doesn't sound like your ds's school is doing this.

Bertrand - for league tables many schools like ds's are doing x2 English as one needed for the award. They have to do at least double science. So it's more than 5 subjects towards it at my ds's school.

Double science, double English, maths, a humanity and an MFL makes 7. This leaves 2-3 choices if doing 9-10 GCSEs. Or 1-2 if RS is made compulsory by the school, too. Or 0-1 if you are forced to do triple science.

I guess 1 choice gives you 1 art subject.

I think schools making RS compulsory is worse than the ebacc. Though making lower ability students take an MFL is no fun either for them or the teachers.

Sounds like your ds's school Bertrand has found a way of slimming down the English Baccalaureat to only 5 subjects then, with 4 more choices.

In "my" day, most able students took double languages and double humanities (leaving room for two arts or tech subjects) BUT we almost all only did a single science...

I thought the combined English no longer existed?

English Language is one GCSE English Literature is another. Plenty of Shakespeare. It's gone back to similar texts I studied in 'my' day!

I completely agree with you Ralph about Religious Studies being compulsory. I have no problem with the subject as it covers beliefs and ethics turning out kids who are educated on big issues, but not at the expense of choice.

I know that - it's just I'm inferring from Bertrand's posts that her ds is taking single English, which must be language or lit only if the combined qualification no longer exists?

I think making all dc take the ebacc is ridiculous.
Ds1 yr11 will get it if he does as well in his exams as expected.
Ds2 is not taking a foreign language, his school offered French to all students and German to the more able (imo this should be the other way around but I prefer german). Ds2 is dyslexic and struggles with English, French would have disheartened him far to much. He is doing both geography and history and is so much happier. He gets good marks and enjoys going to school.

I don't think Bertrands son is doing the new GCSEs though. Or - it sounds like - triple science. So it's comparing apples and oranges. Every school I know is now making RPE a compulsory GCSE because they don't feel they can give the time to a non examined subject any more. And they are giving extra time to core subjects too. The only way my DD's school can still let them do 11 subjects is by extending to a 3 year KS4.

My DCs' school doesn't do RE as a compulsory at all, you can choose it as an option (Philosophy and Ethics) but otherwise they cover the compulsory aspect in PSHEE and form time.

A lot of schools say students might as well do GCSE RE as they have to study it anyway. The school I work at for example. But even there they still get 10 GCSEs as well. They do RE in one lesson a week (some just do short course) and then Eng lit Eng Lang Maths, double or triple science and four options - which can of course include MFL and humanity, still have 2 more. Agree the school may be the issue.

"Most schools are making the following compulsory because of EBACC and progress 8 - 2xEnglish, Maths, RE, 1xMFL, 2 or 3xscience, 1xhumanity." Not any of the ones I know about tbh.

My DCs' school is now going to insist on Hist/Geo and FL but NOT RE; the school I work in is just saying any one out of Hist/Geo/MFL/Computing; and the nearby Outstanding comp which everyone wants to go to makes no such stipulation according to a parent I talked to tonight. (Bit doubtful about that tho).

Betrand to say the ebacc is only 5 subjects is a bit disingenuous; IME most schools insist on two Englishes and two or three sciences; and for a lot, doing double not triple just means one GCSE fewer, not an extra option. So realistically the Ebacc leaves only two choices. And yes, if one of those is a compulsory RE, then only one.

The issues are now very much clearer for me, together with the reasons why, thanks to this thread - just been explaining to my dh, and he was confused! What I think of Gove isn't repeatable.

Bertrand - what year is your ds? I am assuming he is year 10 or 11 if he's not doing the new GCSEs. That would maybe explain why he has more choice.

My understanding is that the current year 10s will be doing only maths, english and science under the new GCSE grades.

Current year 9s will be the first to do the new GCSEs for most subjects, apart from media studies and health & social care, those two are still old style at the moment.

Bertrand's ds and mine are year 10 - and the new GCSEs are just in English and maths.