Secondary school appeal advice

[Putneyparent]

Hi,
I'm appealing after son was not offered a place at a particular secondary school- we didn't get any of our choices- but that's another story.
Wanted to ask the very knowledgeable people on MN;

If I quote from various Ofsted reports in my appeal doc, do I have to include a copy of the entire report as part of my evidence or is it enough to just quote the report?

Do I need to include copies of prospectus if I'm pointing out preferred school offers certain subjects and offered one doesn't?

If I have a killer fact, ie I know a child offered a place lives further away, and distsnce/catchment is a factor, do I use as part of written appeal or save and ask at the hearing to weaken their case?

Who should support lettered be address to?

Should I ask school about net capacity as part of showing school can take more children even if it says it's full? Or wait till hearing.

Many thanks

Putneyparent, if it can provide a bit of reassurance, my DD didn't get into the better ofsted rated/better GCSE results school whilst her best friend did (religion based). They were both high achievers at primary, and inevitably, I did worry a bit about how this would affect DD. Well I shouldn't have worried. They did their English Literature GCSE last year and DD scored higher. They also both did mocks and DD got much better results.

I was told by few teachers that very able pupils will do well wherever. My experience is that DD got much more 1 to 1 attention from teachers because she was recognised as high achiever, whereas her friend was not much different to many other high achiever, so did get the same level of personal attention.

lucsy ours was 2/39 winning.

We were the first to win, in two years though.

Goodness, you've been getting some very unhelpful advice. To give you an idea of the appeal process from a panelist's perspective (disclaimer: I stopped sitting on appeals so I don't claim to be a current panelist), we would be sent a pack prior to the hearing, containing all information that has been submitted from either party and copies of the application form. Other documents such as maps of preferred and offered school, statistics of PAN, last place offered, etc.

If you send letters of support, ofsted reports, prospectuses, etc., you will have three panelists and a clerk who are duty bound to wade through it all, even though it's 99.999% likely to be irrelevant. At the end of that, they're going to be increasingly irritated.

The school admissions appeals code is very clear about grounds for appeal. Either a mistake that has deprived your child of a place, or that your child would be disadvantaged by missing out on a place at the preferred school to such an extent that it would do him more harm than would be done to the children at the school from having to accommodate an extra child.

Things that won't help:
-slating the offered school
-suggesting that your child is 'too good' for the offered school
-letters from other parents (saying what? "Jimmy is such a good friend....")
-prospectuses
-general exam result trends.

Bear in mind that most parents would prefer their child to go to a good school rather than a less good school, but there isn't space for everyone. Also, if a school is open and operating, then ofsted have deemed it to be a legitimate educational establishment. Panels can't be seen to undermine teaching quality of a school by agreeing that a school isn't good enough for a child (even if they privately think that's the case).

Things that will help:
-particular clubs, groups or activities that would benefit the child which the other school doesn't have (e.g. DS is particularly keen on creative writing and school x has a two hour creative writing club each week).
-particular needs that could be met by the appeal school (e.g. the child who moves a lot with the Forces appealing to attend a school which has a lot of experience in catering for Forces children.)
-rarely, evidence of extreme bullying and that the perpetrators go to the offered school.
-medical evidence that a child needs to be at their closest school in case of urgent medical care.
-Rarely, that a child would be endangered at their offered school because of their parent's professional contact with other parents/children at that school (e.g. police/social worker)

There really is very little grounds in appealing because you don't like the offered school or you really wanted the other school. If your child is just an average child who didn't get their choice of school, and the appeal school is full, you shouldn't win.

However, it is a big balancing act. While your case may not be strong, anything you can do to undermine the schools case that they are full will help you. So, look at their class arrangements. If the school had some big year groups and the PAN is a lot smaller, you may find that they could fit other children in. Make sure the school layout on the Net Capacity sheet is correct - make sure they haven't missed an extension off.

-particular clubs, groups or activities that would benefit the child which the other school doesn't have (e.g. DS is particularly keen on creative writing and school x has a two hour creative writing club each week).
And even that is not guaranteed at all. My friend appealed on the basis that her DD wanted to go to that particular school to study Chinese (the only local school to do so). She had already started to study in on a private basis for a couple of years, so it was a case of deciding she wanted to study it to get in. They didn't win the appeal as they concluded that he could continue with the private lessons.

Many thanks for your messages... I've taken the advice on board and will tailor my appeal document accordingly.

There are no guarantees about the outcome of any appeal (except, perhaps, where there's been an obvious error that has deprived a child of a place (and even that ought to be resolved without going to appeal). Lougle's post, though, correctly sets out the sorts of things that add weight and credibility to an appeal and those that don't.

It can't be said often enough that the outcome of an appeal depends on a weighing-up of the strength of the parent's case to admit the child against the strength of the school's case not to admit another child. So, a middling but not especially compelling appeal might succeed if the school's case not to admit is weak - I once chaired a panel that allowed an appeal where the parent didn't even bother to show up, because the school couldn't substantiate any of its claims about why it couldn't admit the child - but might fail if the school does have a solid case not to admit.

PanelChair, I wonder if you can clarify something for me about the weighing-up part of things. I will need to appeal for my child based on the preferred school's experience of his SEN - no statement, but on school action.

Will the school's case be made on the premise of not admitting any child, or can they make the case not to admit my child based on the resources they might have to spend (without a statement)?

Look on the website below. Although it's primarily aimed at appealing for grammar schools, it does give a lot of good advice on appeals generally.

Elevenplusexams.co.uk

Lougle's post is spot on as well.

As others have said, you are proving why your child is suitable for that school, not why other schools are inadequate.

For my appeal (to a grammar school), I gave academic evidence to prove he was up to standard, and evidence why the school's specialism would suit him. This included school reports, letters from teacher and headteacher, copies of suitable work, relevant 'good work' certificates etc. At the appeal, they asked more general questions about ds, his hobbies, attitude, etc.

I'll always be grateful to James Paterson, because dc2 had just discovered the Middle school books, and that week the third one in the series came out, and he was badgering me to buy it. I'm sure mentioning this when asked about reading won me the appeal, because the blond, well dressed lady panellist definitely showed interest at this.

Will the school's case be made on the premise of not admitting any child, or can they make the case not to admit my child based on the resources they might have to spend (without a statement)?

They can make a case around the specific problems they may encounter if they have to admit your child. However, an appeal panel may not find that particularly compelling.

All schools are supposed to be able to cater for children with SEN. The funding formula takes various factors into account to determine how many children with SEN are likely to be on the roll and allocates a lump sum per child to provide for those pupils. The lump sum is more than enough for the provision needed for most children with SEN. The school can also request additional funding from the LA if they have any SEN child requiring particularly expensive provision even if the child does not have an EHC Plan (EHC Plans have replaced statements). So in my view they would struggle to show that they can't provide the resources needed for your child unless they already have significantly more pupils with SEN than the funding formula suggests.

Thank you to both responses. Will look at the other website as suggested.

The child from further away could have medical / social needs that you are not aware of, have been adopted from care..... Or even used a short term rental address for the application.

Do you know where you are on the waiting list?

Hi. I've never posted before and I'm the same position to the OP.

We are thinking about appealing for a secondary school we didn't get.

One of the reasons I think we have grounds for appeal is the fact that our son is Catholic, a decision we made for him as a baby when he was baptised.

It has come to light that a few children from his school have been offered a place at the school and these children were not baptised Catholic. They were baptised CofE but went on to do the sacramental program at our church.

When I read the criteria required for the school it clearly states baptised Catholic Children, which my son is and these children aren't. I have been told this is a good enough reason to take my case to appeal.

Just wondered if this really is the case and if its worth me going to appeal?

Also is there a way of finding out where you are on the waiting list?

Thank you for any help or input.

Other pupils being admitted incorrectly (if that is what has happened) only helps you if this deprived your child of a place. If you wouldn't have got a place it doesn't help.

To find out where you are on the waiting list just ask. The school or LA should be able to tell you.

Ou need to be careful of the baptism argument. Because RC and CofE recognise each other's baptisms. If the DC and their families fulfil the RC attendance requirements, it's quite possible there has been no error.

Are you a regular church goer? I think baptising your child 12 years ago won't hold much sway today, if you haven't kept up your faith.

Ring the school to find out about the waiting list.

Yes we are regular church goers.
The reason why they let the children do the sacramental program that year was purely down to numbers, I'm sure. There were only 6-7 baptized Catholic children in his year.

I know in previous years they didn't allow it.

Thank you for your replays

I will also ring the school after the easter holidays.
My brother in law is a head and knows the head of said school very well and there are 60 children on the waiting list

for your appeal,,you need to,look at the admissions policy, and argue your case according to this.

Why do you think your do didn't get a place, whilst others did? Were they in catchment, and yours not? how far up the list of criteria is the Catholic criteria?

We moved house towards the end of the last school year and even though the school doesn't have a catchment area we are now further away from the school. After what has been said in previous posts I feel like I will be fighting a losing battle. My son was number 6 on the criteria list, baptised catholic who lives outside the parish. Even where we used to live wasn't a feeder parish.

it may seem impossible, but unless you give it a go, you will never know.

Thanks 228. I'm going to find where we are on the list and take it from there. There is a slight chance I suppose.

Appeals are carried out separate to waiting lists, so your waiting list position will have no bearing on the appeal. Therefore, it's always worth appealing unless you are very up up on the list. It may be worth asking how many people get admitted from the waiting list each year.