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Secondary education

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Original poster

What would you make of this email? Sorry, really long....

69 replies

BertrandRussell · 12/03/2016 07:11

My ds's friend's mum struggles with English so I help out with emails from school and so on. They are top set year 10, and recently did a mock GCSE and as a class, did rather less well than either they or the teacher expected. They have already been warned that they will probably not all be put in for the Higher tier paper. She emailed the teacher asking what this meant for her son- he needs an A equivalent for what he wants to do next, so it matters- and got this reply-

I will keep you posted as to his progress with the Higher Tier content as we progress and let you know of any concerns that I have. We have moved the seating arrangements around in the lesson so that he can keep his focus for a longer period of time. He was not fully focussed this morning and we had a chat after the lesson and agreed to move him in the hope that it will improve his work rate and attention span. If this fails to happen, then we may need to look at a set move so that he can work on easier content (the Foundation tier)

She and I both interpreted that as meaning he was definitely "in the drop zone" but when she asked her DS about this he seemed genuinely surprised and shocked. So she emailed the school again asking the teacher to have a word with him and tell him where he stood.

He came home yesterday saying that the teacher had said "it's fine, you're definitely not going anywhere, you're not moving to foundation. Tell your mum not to worry". My DS heard him saying this so either they have both concocted a story or it's what he actually said.

I'm now completely paranoid that I've interpreted the email wrongly and panicked my friend unnecessarily. But I'm right, aren't I? The email and what he told the boy are incompatible? They were only 3 days apart. If it was me I'd just ring up on Monday, but she won't do this.

OP posts:
Original poster
BertrandRussell · 12/03/2016 09:53

The new GCSE grades bear no relation to anything that's gone before- 1-9 with I being probably got a pulse and 9 being well about A*.

There have been tiers in some GCSEs for some time. Certainly when your 2 did them.

OP posts:
RalphSteadmansEye · 12/03/2016 09:59

Tiers have been around for ages. They're actually now being scrapped except for maths. (Forgive me if there are others, but I know there are fewer than the last twenty years.)

There may be some specimen papers around now, but they won't know grade boundaries until after the first lot sit them, will there? So I imagine that the maths teacher is just trying to give them a bit of a kick up the bum both with the email/class move around and marking some papers as a 1?

RalphSteadmansEye · 12/03/2016 10:00

Sorry, not that that excuses the obvious discrepancy between the email and what's been said to pupils.

TheFallenMadonna · 12/03/2016 10:01

GCSEs have been tiered for as long as I have been teaching, which is a long time... In fact one of the new things about the new GCSEs is the removal of tiers, except in Maths and Science.

A 4, for someone who is looking for a 7(?), definitely needs an open conversation between teacher, HoD and parent. This point in year 10 is a common time for such conversations, although the new GCSE complicates matters of course.

BeaufortBelle · 12/03/2016 10:18

OK, so A*-E is being replaced with 9-1? So, the boy in question is being predicted the equivalent of a C/D rather than an A/B - is that about right?

If previous reports have indicated he's a A grade student and he's slipped in two terms to C/D then there's an issue that needs discussing urgently.

The question really is whether he is an A/B student in the first place. One would hope parents do but I have never felt as much sympathy for a primary head as when dd did secondary transfer.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 12/03/2016 10:23

"OK, so A*-E is being replaced with 9-1? So, the boy in question is being predicted the equivalent of a C/D rather than an A/B - is that about right?"

No, it's not as simple as that. And no it wasn't a prediction, it was an actual result and near as can be estimated from a real paper.

Did you really not know that GCSEs are changing? How did you miss that?

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 12/03/2016 10:27

The teacher is making stuff up a bit as you can't get a 1, 2, 3 on the higher paper, it would be a U. There are no grade boundaries for the sample papers, as maths teachers we haven't a clue where the boundaries will lie - it could be 5% for a 4 or 30% and we won't know until the results come out. What percentage did your DS get?

There will be lots of students across the country who will be sitting foundation where previously they would have sat higher, but they won't be A grade kids. The same proportion of students who get an A or above currently will be awarded a 7 or above on the new exam. It would be useful for your DS to sit an old spec past paper so you can get a clear idea of what grade he is working at. If he's at a C then the 4 is a fair assessment, but there is certainly time to improve.

noblegiraffe · 12/03/2016 10:37

And, thinking about it, it's more likely to be 5% than 30% for a 4 because it's currently 30ish for a C and the new higher paper has the first 20% (or something like that) of easier questions removed compared to old higher.

Clonakiltylil · 12/03/2016 11:10

Unless this class is doing IGCSE, they will be using the new system of grading, where 9 is the top and 1 is the bottom. There are no tiers for English; everyone will take the same paper. The teacher seems to be confusing things. It is difficult to predict anything at this stage as no sample assessment materials have been produced with gradings. I think your boy needs to knuckle down and focus, but whether or not he stays in the set will not cap his achievement.

BeaufortBelle · 12/03/2016 11:13

Noble seems to be thinking along the same lines as me and I think has given good advice.

I think I was aware of the change to numbered grades but didn't especially focus as my DD was one of the last to sit GCSEs in old money.

I had no idea however that there were different sorts of GCSEs for different abilities. I thought that's what the grades determined. I don't think my children's schools had those and dd's took some lower ability children - the intake wasn't high flying by any means.

cansu · 12/03/2016 11:19

It is pretty obvious that the teacher thinks he is pissing about. Your ds friends mum needs to focus on that really. He can be put in for higher tier but he won't do well if he is not working. It may well be that there are others who are also not working. sounds like the school are telling the parents to get their offspring into line. Rather than booking a tutor your friends ds needs to get on with his bloody work.

noblegiraffe · 12/03/2016 11:24

Sorry, I saw all the discussion of tiers and assumed it was maths. English isn't tiered for the new GCSE so god knows what the teacher is talking about when she's talking about tiers of entry.

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 12/03/2016 11:35

It sounds like the boy isn't working very hard - he may have said he'd move him to your friend so she could support the boy and make him think about that being a possibility

He them spoke to the boy who face to face and could see he was worried so back back tracked to reassure him. A worried student won't concentrate!!

Either way she should support the teacher in her efforts to get good grades - picking over emails and marching in wont change the fact he's not concentrating and probably messing about

sablepoot · 12/03/2016 11:49

Op has said this is maths. The lads mother struggled with the English in the email, but the subject concerned is maths.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 12/03/2016 11:51

Fascinating that it has gone from Maths to English and from trying to understand emails to "picking over them" in 4 hours

It's Maths. And only the top set will take the higher tier paper so he won't be able to get one of the top grades if he is moved down. And if he is buggering about, then not reinforcing the "get your head down" message face to face- in fact actually down playing it - strikes me as completely bonkers!

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 12/03/2016 11:55

Ah right, I was getting confused. The subject isn't mentioned in the OP! What I said about grade boundaries stands then.

It does sound like the class is a pain in the arse and the teacher is becoming increasingly exasperated. I hope she is getting support with the behaviour.

EBearhug · 12/03/2016 11:58

GCSES were always tiered. I was the first year to take GCSES, and I had tiered papers for Maths and French and possibly a couple of other subjects. (It was nearly 30 years ago - I'm surprised how much I do remember about it!)

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 12/03/2016 12:00

Oh whoops- sorry! I didn't realise I didn't mention maths.

I'm pretty sure the class isn't a pain- my ds doesn't usually hold back about his classmates.......

OP posts:
sablepoot · 12/03/2016 12:07

You did mention maths in post at 7:51, but not explicitly at the start. I reckon if he needs an A equivalent then a tutor is a good idea. So much uncertainty for this particular cohort.

BeaufortBelle · 12/03/2016 12:14

Well we've four more terms and I'll be glad to see the back of it. We've done a mix of IGCE and GCSE followed by IB for one and GCSE and A'Levels for another (all linear).

I'm not convinced a lit of qualifications means people are well educated any more

We have supported our DC and have taken an interest and the system still seems incomprehensible and designed not to acknowledge that some dc are just not very bright and this realisation is dragged further and further to the end when there I less that can be done about it.

Both children's reception classes - it was pretty obvious who was bright and who wasn't and I don't know why so many games have to be played for so long.

sablepoot · 12/03/2016 12:34

That seems really fatalistic Beaufort, are you really suggesting kids might as well sit an assessment at 4 and not bother attending school thereafter?

StDogolphin · 12/03/2016 12:38

Did she confuse him for another child in the email?

RedHelenB · 12/03/2016 12:42

The brightest children in reception are not always the brightest at age 15/16. A lot of it comes down to working in secondary.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 12/03/2016 12:45

Loving the idea of allocating further/higher education and employment on attainment in Reception.........

OP posts:
BeaufortBelle · 12/03/2016 13:08

I don't think I suggested that at all sablepot. I suggested that there is perhaps a case for realism a little before Year 10. I well remember the family who were deeply offended when the HT told them their child wasn't going to make it into the selective schools at 11. It was so sad, the child was of average ability who had spent all the juniors on the middle set tables and yet the parents genuinely thought their child stood a very good chance.

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