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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Alleyns or Emanuel

51 replies

Nikita76 · 03/03/2016 21:32

Hi,

We have to make the choice between these two for DS. We live right next to Emanuel, however DS is quite bright (waiting list for KCS with no tutoring).

I have been to both schools and liked them both very much. I would say Emanuel was a winner in terms of facilities and grounds. But the spread of ability is worrying and DS is ambitious enough to want to be in the top 10%. If he can do that with a B however, he would...I feel that Alleyns will challenge him more and hence give him a better education. Yet the commute is not one to ignore...on the plus side, I know of at least 3 of his state primary friends going to Alleyns so he might not be travelling alone.

I am going round and round in circles and driving myself crazy. Any help appreciated...

OP posts:

MissCellaneous · 04/03/2016 18:18

My DC who got into several top London schools only got wait list for Emanuel...

HPFA · 04/03/2016 18:56

DD (Year 7) goes to the comp in the next town - dedicated bus which stops outside our door and takes 40 minutes. It is a bit of a pain to be honest. She definitely found it more tiring in the first weeks having to cope with school and the journey and there are minor inconveniences which I hadn't thought about and would be boring to relate in detail. It has been more of a nuisance than I expected.
Is it worth it? At the moment, absolutely yes!! She loves the school and so far its been everything we could have dreamed of for her education. But I think you have to be very sure that the further school is the right one or the inconveniences will really annoy you. I don't think you've said what your son would prefer. I can imagine the grumbling as you kick him out of bed on a wet morning to get to the school which he didn't want to go to anyway! But if both of you feel its the right one it probably is!
Best of luck to DS in any case.

Tunis92 · 04/03/2016 19:38

We have chosen Emanuel over other schools which are higher up the academic performance tables and are very happy to have done so. We wanted a happy school with kids who engaged with everything the school had to offer them, without the over-riding pressure that can come with the expectation that everyone gets A* in everything. There are lots of schools for that. No need to feel sorry for my DS, he will do just fine!

Original poster

Nikita76 · 04/03/2016 19:50

I think some people totally misunderstood what I was saying. I do not feel sorry for your kids. I am mostly calling myself a hypocrite for not choosing Emanuel and not having enough faith. I loved the school. And I know he will do well there. But I am getting swayed by academic results that Alleyn's has.

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AnotherNewt · 04/03/2016 19:56

Where does you DS actually see himself?

When are the deadlines for reply? (for some reason I thought it was today for most schools)

Original poster

Nikita76 · 04/03/2016 19:57

In actual fact, I have not yet chosen hence this post. I wouldn't be wasting your time and mine if I knew what the right decision is. So I am grateful for all the opinions.

I have asked DS, who now says that he prefers Alleyn's as all his friends from current school are going there. Yet I am uncertain that is any basis for an important decision like that.

OP posts:

Original poster

Nikita76 · 04/03/2016 19:59

Deadline is Monday at 11am, it will be a long weekend...

Again, I apologise if I offended anyone. If I didn't think Emanuel was very good, I wouldn't find this decision so hard

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Tunis92 · 04/03/2016 20:19

Understood Nikita and absolutely no offence taken here! All of us, if lucky enough to have choices, have a really hard time separating 'real' issues from gut feel, from other people's opinion, from listings, from what everyone else is doing and so on. Really hard. Try tossing a coin between the two - then you will get an idea of which one you really wanted!

HPFA · 04/03/2016 20:23

I understood what you meant Nikita - I think that you can know logically that the great results in a school are largely due to its intake but when you see that almost every child in a school gets fistfuls of A stars you somehow see your kid waving that piece of paper with a big smile on his face!
If you knew for certain now that your DS's results would be exactly the same at either school (which from other posters comments seems likely) which school would you and your son choose? I suspect that one is the right school.

DaphneWhitethigh · 04/03/2016 20:26

Have you looked at the A Level results and the leavers' destinations for Emmanuel? If there are even one or two going on to do Eng Lit at Cambridge and Maths at Imperial or similar then that proves that their brightest pupils can achieve at the highest level which is all you need to know.

Do double check on the Further Maths A level thing because if it were true that they didn't offer it then that probably should rule it out for your DS, but it seems unlikely.

Original poster

Nikita76 · 04/03/2016 20:31

My son has moments of brilliance but he is mostly too busy either being lazy or fighting the establishment and doing the minimal work required. He is however quite ambitious and has managed to be in the top set of current class without actual effort on his part.

That can only get him so far in life and I want him to understand that in school and life you have to work how in order to succeed. My worry is that when he sees children of different abilities, he will be happy to simply be one of the good ones, without trying to keep up with the top set for example.

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MN164 · 04/03/2016 20:58

No direct experience, but went to the Emanuel science thing yesterday.

If you are comparing results, remember that the cohorts for Emanuel are improving rapidly and the GCSE and A level results your seeing are from 5-7 years ago's intake. I would expect their results to close the gap.

Ignore the chat and go with your gut feeling for where your child is likely to feel happy. Both schools can do well with a happy student.

reallyhopeitworksout · 04/03/2016 21:56

It's hard to turn down a place like Alleyn's which is difficult to get into, it feels like such a prise – I do really understand. Personally we thought Alleyn's was arrogant, smug and a bit Stepford wives. DS did get in but something didn't feel right. One man's poison...

reallyhopeitworksout · 04/03/2016 21:57

prize, grrrrr auto correct

Radiatorvalves · 04/03/2016 22:11

Well, my DS is on the waiting list for Alleyn's. If you turn it down, someone will be happy.

Really - I don't know about Stepfird wives, but it did seem a bit naice (mainly white) middle class....a big difference from the lovely state school where DS is now. However, the State school he has been offered is not good.

I hope you make the right decision for your DS.

reallyhopeitworksout · 05/03/2016 10:28

We turned it down when offered a good state. Drives me mad when people hold on to places, so stressful for those on wait lists. Best of luck, Radiator

AnotherNewt · 05/03/2016 10:28

It's about 'bragging rights' on current perceived reputation of the school, versus where you think your particular DC will fit. As reallyhopeitworksout says, Alleyn's is more fashionable at the moment, plus the old reputation of Emanuel still lingers. It can be hard to go against the flow.

The bottom line that output (exams) reflects input (selectivity on joining), and there is actually very little difference in how your DC will do - the clever children will come out with A*/A results.

You have to look at what you think of each school and its ethos, the logistics of attending the school (so what sort of journey for your DC in both the metaphorical and literal sense).

jeanne16 · 05/03/2016 12:19

Of course this always makes me wonder just how much 'added value' any of these schools really provide. They are all so hell bent on cherry picking the top pupils as this is the single biggest factor in improving grades. So what are the schools adding?

AnotherNewt · 05/03/2016 12:27

There is no way to demonstrate what, if any, added value there is because there is no standardised baseline at entry.

I mean of course added value in the academic sense, not in terms of extent of co-curricular opportunities.

OddsandSods · 05/03/2016 18:38

Op I sympathise as we had similar dilemma and it is difficult to move them later if it doesn't work out. I felt exhausted deciding, everyone kept saying go with gut feeling and we would know but I didn't experience that. In our case it was choosing very achieving 7 min on bus cheaper vs less achieving 40 min on bus more expensive (with a few friends going there). Great pastoral care at both. We went for the more achieving one due to it being better value for money (everything was included) and the ease of getting home and fellow students being local. DD is less happy as won't be with her existing friends but we felt on balance the other pros outweighed this. I'm hoping we are right but no guarantees. I guess you need to weigh up the pros and cons of each and what you feel is highest priority, also to listen to what your gut feeling is (provided you have one). Good luck!

Original poster

Nikita76 · 05/03/2016 19:41

Well, DS and DH decided that they both prefer Alleyn's. I was very disappointed as my gut said Emanuel.

Had a little cry and realized that I am taking this way too serious and if DS says his gut says Alleyn's, I have no right to interfere.

Yet after 7 years of walking past Emanuel 3 times a day and always imagining my child there, giving up that image is hard.

Thanks for all your advice.

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Tunis92 · 05/03/2016 19:47

Huge good luck Nikita! Despite my bias for Emanuel I think you made the right decision for your child with his strong preference... And I think you know that!

AnotherNewt · 06/03/2016 09:36

Chin up! The decision's made and in a surprisingly short amount of time, it'll seem like such the right school you'll wonder why you ever dithered.

Though of course you'll get a pang when you have to travel 45 minutes to parents evening, instead of just tripping gaily 3 minutes along from your door.

(PS: if it misfires for a serious reason, you can always move at 13+)

Radiatorvalves · 06/03/2016 12:52

Thanks Really. I guess this is why the deadline for acceptance is after 1 March. If we'd been offered Graveney and Alleyn's...Graveney would have won.. I think we may get a decent State offer in June or July, but at the moment it is a bit bleak.

Original poster

Nikita76 · 06/03/2016 13:46

Radiatorvalves, where are you on the waiting list for Graveney?

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