Atheist kid in a Catholic School - WWYD

[Brokenbiscuit]

Can't sleep - need advice please!

There are four secondaries in our town. We're in the catchment for two of them.

One of the catchment schools is in special measures. I was worried about this but decided that We should not worry too much about the ofsted and make our own judgement after seeing the school. I hated it when we looked around, they gave us the really hard sell and wouldn't let us talk freely to any of the staff. It all felt very controlled/stage managed. DD also didn't like the feel of the school.

We loved the other catchment school, which is also nearer to our home. It had a fantastic atmosphere and felt really nurturing. About half of dd's friends will be going there, and she has set her heart on it. We're in catchment, our neighbour's kids go there and dd went to a feeder primary school. I assumed that she would get in.

We put the nice catchment school as our first choice. Second choice was the local Catholic secondary. Academically, it's probably the best school in town, and dd is bright, so it would suit her in that way, but we're not Catholic. I'm agnostic and so is DH but I think dd would describe herself as an atheist. We put the school down because it seemed to be the second best choice on offer but it didn't really occur to me that dd would get in because we aren't religious and I'd heard all sorts of stories about people going to church for years to get in.

I didn't think she would get in, but put it down anyway because anything was better than the other catchment school which we really didn't like. Same with our third choice which was an oversubscribed school that is quite far from our house. Tbh, I really thought she would get into our first choice, but I figured that anything was better than the awful school. I do still feel this.

Anyway, now we have the result and she didn't get into the nice catchment school after all. To my astonishment, she did get into the catholic school. She didn't get into our third choice.

So now I'm panicking. DD will be really disappointed and she hates the idea of going to a religious school. Does anyone have experience of being a non-Catholic at a catholic school? We were completely honest in our application so she wouldn't have to pretend that she believed but they do say that parents should support the school's Christian ethos. I don't really have a problem with this but I am worried that dd might!

If we decline this school, I suspect that there will be spaces at the catchment school that we hated, as I haven't met a single person who wanted to go there. Academically, it isn't on a par with the Catholic option but I don't want to force dd into religious observance that she isn't comfortable with. She has quite strong views on this, despite only being 10!

Will check out where we are on the waiting list for our first choice school in any case, but don't hold out much hope. I don't think that we really have good grounds for appeal either - I'm guessing that our first choice is just heavily over subscribed this year.:(

Oh FWIW, I don't think much of our local private options either. We had a look but I wasn't wildly impressed so dd didn't sit the exam. So we've missed the boat on that as well.

Feel like I've stuffed everything up for her, and now stuck between a rock and a hard place.

WWYD? Go for the "good" Catholic school even though it doesn't seem a great fit for dd? Do I have any other option?

OP, glad you got your first choice.

This is one of the many reasons why it's so wrong to have state funded religious education - makes me so mad!

Send her to the catholic school, and put her on the waiting list for the school you love. If she's very happy at the catholic school, you can then leave her there.

So glad things have worked out for you. I've just seen your post and was about to suggest you appeal as I too would feel very uncomfortable sending my children to a religious school, but saw the happy outcome. Congratulations to you both!

Glad it got sorted. Didn't want to post as I was going to say something negative. For a child who thinks gods are fantasies similar to fairy's and leprechauns a religious school can be torture. How can you respect and learn from a teacher who says they believe in creationism and evolution is nonsense. Obviously every school is different and so is every DC but for some its almost abusive to ask them to sit silently through rituals where they turn wafers into human flesh and juice into blood then proceed to eat drink them.

FYI BigDorrit there are loads of secular schools in the UK, my DC now goes to one.

Full disclosure: I'm a practising Christian.
I went to a faith school. It does impact the nature of the school, the curriculum and teaching staff. So be realistic about that, BUT also be realistic about the other options (or lack thereof..)

I think you should send her to the Catholic school IF you all agrees it's the best option. You should talk openly about the collective worship, RE, Sex ed that is likely to be on offer as well as the things likely uneffected by the faith nature of the school.

If you DO decide to send her, you really can't then come on here in a year or two moaning about them teaching Catholic morality or religious belief (harsh but true!). So you need to all (both parents & DC) be in agreement that it is the best option despite the drawback of not sharing the faith of the school.

Sorry just seen your update, great news

I went to a Catholic school, and I'm an atheist, my whole family are atheists going back generations.

I had to go to a Catholic sixth form because our comprehensive joined teams with the Catholic school for these years. It was a terrible experience. I hardly learnt anything because we had really bigoted teachers. The lessons usually descended into arguments about gay rights and women's rights. I was shocked that the teachers held the views they did. I would not send my child to a religious school under any circumstance.

Ah good brokenbiscuit :) Glad your wee daughter is happy and yes you assume right - it would work for her wherever she goes, primarily if you have the right attitude. You sound like a lovely mum, good luck. :)

I am a (very) lapsed catholic and have just got dd into the catholic secondary school, DD doesn't go to church outside of school.

There will be religious based assemblies that generally give a "be a decent human being" message rather than an overly religious bent. There will be the choice to partake in more religious based activities.

I was concerned taht theer would be too much religeon but it really is offered but not forced. The 6th former who showed us around was buddhist and told us that they totally respected other religeons, which was a concern for me, in the form of "other religeons are available" approach.

I went to the same school, albeit over 20 years ago, and certainly dind't find religeon to be a huge part of school. I think you'll find it a good school.

I went to a Catholic sixth form college as an atheist and it was brilliant. I did much better there than I would have staying at my high school. I wasn't brainwashed or anything. I remember finding it all a bit exotic. As long as she is raised to question, she'll be fine.

BigDorrit, "Schools have by law to provide daily collective worship, wholly or mainly of a Christian nature. This applies whether the school is a faith school or not."

I do understand the legal requirement but it is a historic position and a lot of schools ignore it. Their are a lot of stupid historic laws on the statute that politicians cant be arsed to change because of the religious vote, they just leave them to fade into antiquity.

My DC goes to a school that publicity advertises as a secular school. It has no daily act of worship, RS is an option within the GCSE choices but apparently very few take it and the legal requirement of religious studies is 'consumed' within the two PSHE/tutor lessons they have a week ie they dont do any. It is rated outstanding and I am not aware of any parent or lawyer ever insisting they teach more religion.

Op this is totally off topic but where do you live to have found out so early today and then got a place somewhere else the same day? I'm just being nosy - we got told by email at 4pm and no changes now for a week or two.

BigDorrit I guess I am lucky, but I did move house specifically to get to a good school.

BigDorrit, you do realise that the RC church largely sat out the cultural war about evolution that many fundamentalist protestant churches are still waging. The RC church is much more flexible on interpretations of the book of Genesis than many protestant denominations are. The RC church is not a sole scriptura church as many protestant churches are. It takes a prima scriptura approach. Wrt evolution, all the RC church cares about is that the existence of the human soul is not disputed and that God started the ball rolling.

Wrt your wiki article, none of those organisations are affiliated with the RC church. None has the imprimatur of the RC church - none of them is an official church group. What your article illustrates is that individual Catholics have all sorts of opinions on evolution and creationism, just as people of other organised religions (and none) do. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

If it's not officially affiliated with the Vatican then it doesn't speak for the Vatican; its voice is not official. This should be very clear.

Organisations claiming to speak for the RC church or to speak as Catholics are subject to all of the church rules and scrutiny regarding publication and broadcasting.

TITLE IV - Instruments of social communication and specifically books
"Can. 822 - §1. The pastors of the Church, employing a right which belongs to the Church in fulfilling its responsibility, are to endeavor to make use of the instruments of social communication.
§ 2. These same pastors are to see to it that the faithful are taught that they are bound in duty to cooperate so that the use of the instruments of social communication is animated with a human and Christian spirit.
§ 3. All the Christian faithful are to be concerned about furnishing assistance in this pastoral activity in such a way that the Church effectively fulfils its responsibility through such instruments; this is especially true for those who in any way have a role in the regulation or use of these instruments.

Can. 823 - § 1. In order for the integrity of the truths of the faith and morals to be preserved, the pastors of the Church have the duty and the right to be vigilant lest harm be done to the faith or morals of the Christian faithful through writings or the use of the instruments of social communication; they likewise have the duty and the right to demand that writings to be published by the Christian faithful which touch upon faith or morals be submitted to their judgment; they also have the duty and right to denounce writings which harm correct faith or good morals.
§ 2. The bishops as individuals or gathered in particular councils or conferences of bishops have the duty and the right mentioned in § 1 with regard to the Christian faithful committed to their care; the supreme authority of the Church has this duty and right in regard to the whole people of God.

Can. 824 - § 1. Unless otherwise established, the local ordinary whose permission or approval to publish books is to be sought according to the canons of this title is the proper local ordinary of the author or the ordinary of the place in which the books are published.
§ 2. Unless otherwise evident, the prescriptions of the canons of this title concerning books are to be applied to any writings whatsoever which are destined for public distribution."

The RC church is nothing if not organised. It is governed by Canon Law. Organisations claiming to speak as Catholic organisations are supposed to accept the scrutiny and rules of the Church. You can be a Catholic writer or scientist, etc., but unless you submit your book on theology or creationism or matters concerning faith or morals to the diocesan censor you may not claim your book is an example of Catholic philosophy, Catholic thought, or in any way the definitive RC line on your subject. The diocesan censor will either recommend the bishop give his Imprimatur (meaning 'let it be published') or deny it. You are free to publish it without the Imprimatur of course, or to forgo the censorship process, but if you continue to claim your work is 'Catholic' you will be challenged by the Church.

In the same way you can't make 'Prada handbags' in a little backroom in Bangladesh, and sell them.