how important is DofE?

[DorothyL]

To give context -dd in year 10, quite academic, on course to get very good results at gcse. Plays two instruments and part of an orchestra inside and outside of school.

She could do DofE in the next 12 months but is quite reluctant - how much should I push her to do it?

My nephew has done Bronze/Silver/Gold at an IB school. He also does MUN and plays cricket at a high level. He was able to use bits of his other extra-curricular interests and the IB programme to fulfill quite a lot of his DofE requirements. It would have been a lot more time-consuming to do DofE had he not been able to do that.

TBH I think my nephew has done so much extra-curricular activity over the years that his academics have suffered a bit. My DSSs did fewer extra-curricular activities and more homework and it has had a better pay off so far. But who knows what they will all think in future and where their skills will take them?

"In fact, it doesn't send a very good message to many people."

Say more?

It screams middle class privilege. And promotes a skewed idea of what is 'rounded'. If you're in that middle class privilege bubble you will never see it. But it does.

Interesting, Uhtred. TBH DofE always makes me feel a bit uneasy but I hadn't spent enough time thinking about it to put any words on my feelings. I suppose the packaged and branded nature of the worthiness makes me cringe a bit.

I don't think it is of any use on CV, but it does have som benefit for some children. However, if you DD doesn't want to do it, you can only tell her the benefit, and let her decide.

DS1 is doing it, he has been looking forward to it, and I think it is a good opportunity as well. For learning new skill side, he does the same as before. He has been learning 2 instruments, and he also does 2 sports. For volunteering side, he now helps in a club for primary school children, which I think is good for him. The best part for him is the expedition side, he has attended a few training session, and will start to do a couple of warming up one involve camping, walking and navagation in the forest. We start to do some walking during weekend, as I think he need to gradually build up resistence. They need to walk 8 hours a day in the formal session. And he is in the same group with a few of his friends, that's quite important too.

I think is Dofe is an opportunity to put lots of good activities together, and as parents, it would take some effort to arrange these sorts of things, but now it is all arranged by school, which is great.

Some friends' children are not doing this, but they started to do some jobs, like deliverying papers and other part-time works. I think it is the same. These all help our DC to become mature, independant and caring.

Autumnsky - I agree that there is a macro benefit to DofE, in that it normalises in society the educational experiences that are packaged by DofE.

The kids dh took were not middle class exvept for that few months they joined then left the teens who went from bronze through to gold certainly were not middle class Dh wanted his group to be open to all backgrounds

DofE is indeed a MC signifier.

But no more so than living in [insert nice area] or attending [nice school]. In the great sea of middle class signifiers (conservatoires, LAMDA lessons, poetry competitions) DofE is just one more.

But frankly, in the UK today, there are very few arenas indeed where middle class signifiers will do you harm.

I take it that was a particularly hamfisted dig at my DD. There are in fact arenas where middle class signifiers can do harm, as it happens, but more importantly there are areas where embodying the concept that yomping = 'rounded' will do you harm. It's a bit like riding lessons. Yes they are seen as middle class - but a particular subset of middle class. Which those in it, think is wonderful. And those who aren't - however posh they may be - really seriously don't.

As for the idea that DoE leaders are concened that their particular subset of MC smugness should be 'open to all backgrounds' (when in reality of course it can't be) the faux noblesse oblige is staggering.

I know a University admissions tutor and he is not remotely interested in DofE. He just wants the correct predicted A level results.

uhtred I think you're taking all this far too personally.

The examples of middle class signifiers I gave are simply three we have in my family ( how on earth would I know anything about yours? ) and frankly they're just the starting line.

DofE is the least of things that Mark them out as MC and privileged.

Blimey, if your kids couldn't or didn't want to do DofE then fine, but depicting it is problematic in any way is just ridiculous!

DS did it to gold and loved it, especially the expeditions. He wished there was a platinum level so he could keep going...

But only do it if its your thing... It's not a big deal at all on a CV or university application. Elements of it might be, but those could be done separately if you wanted and be just as effective on an application. It does show ability to stick at things and fill out the paperwork etc to get it signed off, which I suppose might count for something (given that lots of youngsters don't seem to be organised enough to manage that very well)

If you consider DofE to just be a MC signifier you are rather missing the point, there are opportunities to complete any Award by the time you are 25. Some employers run DofE schemes, they provide great opportunities for people who didn't have all the full range of volunteering, orchestra etc as teens. I'm pretty sure that some of the companies offering apprenticeships for young people subsidise their activities. There are a lot of people who feel the DofE expeditions have changed their life, including the explorer David Hempleman-Adams. Our local DofE scheme is run by QPR football club's outreach team.

DofE is a bit different to LAMDA/ABRSM/ski-ing/other MC signifiers because it makes claim to a moral content.

DofE is a bit different to LAMDA/ABRSM/ski-ing/other MC signifiers because it makes claim to a moral content.

What? Because it asks for an element of volunteering? Are we getting to the stage where we are equating DofE / middle-classness / volunteering / moral dubiousness. This thread is getting bonkers.

DD enjoyed her DofE. The skills that she already had, but expanded upon, have stood her in good stead in her line of work. DS didn't do DofE because it's not his bag but it won't hold him back in what he wants to do.
Life's what you make it. If you want to do DofE, then do it. If not, then not.

None of mine did it, in fact nobody at their schools did it, just not an issue here.
Why push kids to do things they don't want to, or push them at all.
I can never understand this.
Nobody bothers about extra curricular activities you did at school when you attend interviews. Otherwise we'd all have members of tufty club etc.

I find the same with music, quite laughable that some parents push their dc to play instruments for themselves, so they can get into certain schools.
They don't think about the poor child. Not referring to you OP.

I just wish parents would leave their dc be and stop giving them anxiety and pressure, the schools do this enough without parents doing it too.

You don't retrace a detailed history of all your extracurriculars on a CV but in theory the build up of skills from extracurriculars and other opportunities has helped get you to the point you are at.

DSS1 was at a recruitment assessment recently and the interviewers were super impressed with something on his (actually quite meagre) CV. Standalone it is impressive but what the CV doesn't show is the backstory - the long succession of things that got him to that particular end point.

senua - have you read the DofE website? It's full of virtue

DofE is only worth doing if your dc is interested in all it entails. My ds has done it through scouts. He loves camping and treks and a lot of the skills required had already been learnt via scouts. He did it for fun and volunteered with another scout group and put piano as his skill.

As I said- they should do it if they want to- one of mine did, the other didn't. The middle class signifies thing didn't bother me- they are both walking stereotypes anyway.

What bothers me is when people think it will have the slightest impact on university entrance. Many people still do- but if you think about it for 30 seconds it's absolutely obvious why it can't.

If they go on to get their Gold, then it is seen as a positive thing.
Bronze can be a bit "walked through it by the school", but it starts some youngsters on the route through and teaches them the basics.
It's a good thing to do, but only if the dc want to do it - it's too much of a commitment to push someone in to it who doesn't want to.

I think DofE has been good for my kids as they are not particularly sporting or outgoing. It has forced them outside of their comfort zones for a decent amount of time.

It won't figure on UCAS applications, but good for its own sake.

Eric except it's not ridiculous since I am aware that it happens. In recruitment. Some people are very anti. And some are very pro but you can't know beforehand which way a person will go. It's the same with posh schools. Old school tie can get a door open but it can also be a burden.

A bit of volunteering in a area she is interested in related to the degree subject and continuing with the music side will cover any UCAS issues.

My DC never wanted to do D of E and I had already grown tired of the pushing to do things.

I admire all DCs who have achieved a D of E since it shows sustained commitment to all their range of activities. Additionally for many non outdoorsy teenagers the expeditions are their only experience of roughing it with the elements and physical discomfort whilst having to support weaker team members. To denigrate it as a MC activity or useless for university entrance is beside the point as the working towards a D of E is still worthwhile to the individuals doing it just as most extracurricular activities or part-time jobs are.

To state the obvious there is life before and after university entrance. Not all is about personal statements.