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Secondary education

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Original poster

Do Oxbridge like to see a MFL at GCSE?

57 replies

kitnkaboodle · 01/02/2016 09:34

My son, Y9, is choosing options now. He's possible 'Oxbridge material' in Maths/Science/Tech as long as he keeps on the straight and narrow. His school are advising all top sets/kids with their eyes on university to take French as a GCSE option. DS does fine in French, is top set, but doesn't like it. With all the other subjects he's going to be doing, I can see him possibly getting 'only' a B in it (or new equivalent). For A levels he'll almost certainly be doing Maths and Sciences - currently has vague ambitions to be an engineer.

Does anyone know if Oxbridge actually care what subjects kids have at GCSE level, or whether they are only interested in their GCSE grades, or if, in fact, they don't look at GCSEs at all and are only interested in your prediction A level grades?

I took Oxbridge entrance over 30 years ago, and I know that then they required you to have a Science O-level. I didn't have one, but I had Geography, and that was allowed to count.

I'll post this in Further Education board as well - thanks!

OP posts:
bojorojo · 01/02/2016 12:08

Special need is a separate case and is looked at differently! Oxford definitely say so on their web site so the two cases are not comparable. Your personal statement should cover any inconsistencies in GCSEs that are down to a disability or special need. The OP's DS is not special needs (as far as we know).

Original poster
kitnkaboodle · 01/02/2016 12:14

I did consider, anyway, seeing if he would like to study German outside of school. The problem now is that he is going to be looking at 12 GCSEs in school time, and I think doing another outside of school might be the straw that breaks the camel's back!! He's top sets for everything, so will do, before any options:
English Lang, English Lit, Maths, Further Maths, Statistics, triple science
then four options subjects.

Is this normal? Or bonkers?? 'Good' state comp.

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 01/02/2016 12:15

Bonkers. The GCSEs are just about to get harder. Most schools are capping the number to 10 and there's no need to do more than that.

senua · 01/02/2016 12:19

Maths, Further Maths, Statistics

That sounds a bit OTT to me. If he is going down the Engineering route then sixth form will be Maths, more Maths and even more Maths (aka Physics). That is specialist enough.
Don't let him get that specialised this early. Ease up on the Maths for GCSE and do wider subjects or fewer subjects.

BertrandRussell · 01/02/2016 12:19

Bonkers. And why on earth Maths, further Maths and statistics?

For a Oxbridge type child with no additional needs I would insist on the "bore and a chore" subject. But I'm mean that way......

MaterEstIratus · 01/02/2016 12:22

My opinion is based on no evidence at all! But, for what it's worth, I would be astonished if Oxbridge would take on anyone without top grades across the board. They are so oversubscribed that it seems a very easy way to whittle down candidates. If he could get top marks in all his A levels and all his GCSEs then it might matter slightly what his choices were at GCSE but only in comparison to someone who has also got a clean sweep.

NisekoWhistler · 01/02/2016 12:24

Husband did engineering at Oxford. He got a B in French and C in RE. What mattered were his Science/Maths grades. Good luck

raspberryrippleicecream · 01/02/2016 12:27

For Oxford, you need to ace the entrance test anyway. DS2s friend got an interview at Oxford for a science subject with 2 Bs including French in his portfolio. DS1 with all A and A including A MFL was 3% off threshold and didn't.

BertrandRussell · 01/02/2016 12:29

"Husband did engineering at Oxford. He got a B in French and C in RE. What mattered were his Science/Maths grades. Good luck"

BertrandRussell · 01/02/2016 12:30

Sorry- that post was supposed to have "that was then, this is now" at the end of it!

Original poster
kitnkaboodle · 01/02/2016 13:17

senua- The top set in Maths have to do three GCSEs - maths, further and statistics. He gets no choice in those!! I'm guessing they do one early, but will ask later on at options evening, etc. He has 8 obligatory GCSEs already.

OP posts:
HildaFlorence · 01/02/2016 13:21

My da is in a similar situation , his school advise 10 , a mfl is compulsory unless dyslexia or similar is a factor so assuming 3 sciences three options . School advise as much breadth as you can can . Bear in mind with no AS levels anymore GCSEs will be the only indication universities have .

disquisitiones · 01/02/2016 13:42

The top set in Maths have to do three GCSEs - maths, further and statistics.

This doesn't make sense given the changes in the Maths GCSE. Currently they may well be doing three but I would be surprised if they are planning to do three with current year 9s. It will be much harder to get a top grade on the new maths and it contains part of the current further maths GCSE.

almondpudding · 01/02/2016 14:05

I think that not very far in the future it is going to be seen as odd for any child of reasonable intelligence not to have a computer science qualification, particularly one thinking of going in to engineering or similar.

If your DS isn't doing GCSE computing, I would suggest you pay for them to at least do some online coding courses that offer certification.

tumpymummy · 01/02/2016 14:22

Really @almondpudding? DS (year 9) currently choosing options has decided not to do Computer Science since he says he knows a lot about computing already (as do all children that age now). That he is more than happy using a computer, but isn't a computer nerd so will leave it to the kids that are really in to that kind of thing. He's going to choose Music and PE (along with Ebacc subjects) as they are more his interests.

swingofthings · 01/02/2016 14:26

Schools all seem to mention Oxbridge as soon as they get a kid who gets A/A* quite naturally. DD attended an appointment for a College place last month, and as soon as they looked at her school report, they asked her if she'd considered Oxbridge. She hasn't and frankly, I don't think it would be the place for her. She learns easily and as she is quite competitive and ambitious, she will work hard to get the top grades. She however is not a natural scholar, nor loves to learn for the sake of learning.

Has your son expressed an interest in Oxbridge himself with the knowledge of what it truly represents?

almondpudding · 01/02/2016 14:43

TM, using a computer is ICT. It isn't the same thing as computing.

LooseAtTheSeams · 01/02/2016 15:19

OP, I could have written your exact post, although I'm making no predictions on Oxbridge. I have checked Oxford admissions and the Russell Group website and they seem to be adamant that they prefer high grades to MFL. Oxford even insists it won't change the rules retroactively.
I agree having MFL is a sign of all-round skills (I did 3 at O level and loved them) and I think if you apply for arts or humanities degrees it will look really, really odd not to have done one, but my DS argues that computer science will be more use to him than French because he wants to do computing or a related subject. Only selected students can do the programming computer science GCSE so it is viewed as academically challenging and presumably that is why it's also an EBACC subject. Looking at it another way. He's planning to do 7 EBACC subjects, plus English lit, plus RE, plus art and music. To me that looks all-round academic!

Original poster
kitnkaboodle · 01/02/2016 17:04

swing of things - no, obviously at only-just-14 he doesn't have much of a clue about the reality of Oxbridge. He's just got the idea that it is the absolute pinnacle - most mega famous scientists/mathematicians went there (and we had a trip to Oxford in Oct half term and he liked it!) etc. tbh at the moment his absolute fascination is aeronautical design and engineering and I doubt v much you can do a degree in that at Oxford or Cambridge (tho' I know nothing about that!) I guess when I say 'Oxbridge' I really mean 'top universities'.
I think that French it will have to be, with the understanding that he has to give it as much attention as his other subjects (I'll dig further about the triple maths, given that lots of people are querying it). That or explore the German-out-of-school option. I don't mind going a bit 'off the wall' on that. I can see a point at which he might decide that History is possibly the way to go instead - at which point he will obviously be glad that he's got a language GCSE.
Loose - yes, in our options booklet it describes Computer Science as one of the most demanding GCSEs. I imagine that it is all about coding, etc. Another question for parents evening ....

OP posts:
LooseAtTheSeams · 01/02/2016 17:51

Oddly enough, DS was also prepared to consider a German out-of-hours option! I'm not filling in that form until I've had a good chat with the school on options evening anyway! Certain unis do want GCSE language for English and history, but only a very few - Durham and KCL, I think. Only UCL has it as an entrance requirement per se (with the alternative of doing a language module instead when you get there).

almondpudding · 01/02/2016 17:57

OP, the new Computing curriculum came in from 2013. It was designed in conjunction with the Royal Society of Engineers. It means that the children below 14 years now (so everyone directly below your child and mine in age) are going to have compulsory coding, algorithm and programming classes from the ages of 5-14.

So that's all the people your child is going to be competing for jobs against in the future. And your child wants to work in STEM.

Computing GCSE is not demanding for someone doing Further Maths!

sablepoot · 01/02/2016 18:00

I would say that for Oxbridge entry for science, a higher grade for computer science (with an overall higher percentage of top grades) would confer a very slight advantage over a lower French result. This would be more pronounced for some options, eg medicine at Oxford where the percentage of top grade GCSEs becomes more critical. For subjects with an aptitude test like Physics, acing that is way more important than GCSE results. I know of a number of recent succesful oxbridge applicants who had the odd B (or lower, and in one case, mostly Bs and Cs) at GCSE, so although it doesn't help, it won't rule you out either.

However a language can come in useful later on in unexpected ways, I know two youngsters now working in (different) French engineering firms whose GCSEs in French were a definite advantage in landing the job. One of them was predicted a C/D in year 10 and ended up with an A (change of teacher, a tutor and a lot of effort all contributed, but A was still unexpected), so it may be worth persisting.

GinandJag · 02/02/2016 18:13

Of course learning a language is a chore. There are no shortcuts. A clever kid can't figure things out by inference (as much). They simply have to knuckle down and learn their vocabulary.

Surely this, in itself, is a valued transferable skill that a top university would appreciate?

If he is Oxbridge material, he should have no problem getting an A*. If he CBA, then perhaps he is not Oxbridge material after all.

Kr1stina · 02/02/2016 18:39

Schools all seem to mention Oxbridge as soon as they get a kid who gets A/A quite naturally. DD attended an appointment for a College place last month, and as soon as they looked at her school report, they asked her if she'd considered Oxbridge. She hasn't and frankly, I don't think it would be the place for her. She learns easily and as she is quite competitive and ambitious, she will work hard to get the top grades. She however is not a natural scholar, nor loves to learn for the sake of learning*

This. I have a child who has 9 A* and 2 As and she is not remotely Oxbridge material , for exactly the same reasons.

GinandJag · 02/02/2016 18:59

My DD got 10 A* at GCSE. She is now a scholar and attends luncheons for prospective Oxbridge applicants (she is on a conveyor belt). I don't think she is Oxbridge material as such, as she does not live and breathe a particular subject.

However, I am sure she will apply and see where the conveyor belt leads.

The key thing to getting a place at Oxford or Cambridge is to apply, which is the seed that schools are planting at an early age.