Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

French teacher called her Ginger

79 replies

Hyland · 21/01/2016 23:09

It would seem that the teacher didnt mean to offend my daughter.

However the class was writing down the translation for french words.

The list went like this:
Politics
Business/company
Aeroplane
Celebrity
Bmx
Shopping centre/world trade centre
Poor people
Ginger
Fashion
Boat
Climbing
Factory
Married
Grandchildren

Anyway when she got to the word Roux, the teacher said to my daughter you will know this one.

I think this threw my daughter off (not knowing why she would know above everyone) and ahe hesitated as she thought the translation for Roux was red and the teacher said no it's Ginger, lets not confuse everyone.

I think their was a few giggles and obvioulsy everyone was looking at her.

Needless to say she was really embarrassed.

What is everyones opinon on this?!

OP posts:
ThenLaterWhenItGotDark · 23/01/2016 09:01

"Don't pick on kids with anything connected to appearance"

Quite.

Pointing out a girl who has ginger hair, has ginger hair is hardly the same as saying "Oi lardarse, how many pies today?" or "Speccy 4 eyes" which was what I got from the age of 5 till the day I got my contact lenses.

ThenLaterWhenItGotDark · 23/01/2016 09:02

PS Perhaps the rest of the class were laughing because your daughter hadn't learned her vocabulary very well? Hair colour is a bit A1/A2 level on the CEFR, no?

BombadierFritz · 23/01/2016 09:08

Ginger can be used as an insult. This teenager was upset. If it was the other way round, 'what does roux mean- oh hylands dd you might know' then the child can choose the phrase they prefer. Even that is not ideal

Why are people so keen to rubbish the feelings of others? A lot of people dont like the term ginger. Some do. Now you all know you can all be more careful labelling others with a word that might have been used to insult them all their life. Of course it might not. But you dont know. Sensitivity doesnt cost
Teaching teens its best to be v careful about anything wrt personal appearance

BombadierFritz · 23/01/2016 09:10

Actually, was she given the french then marked wrong for red? Then definitely speak to the teacher!

BombadierFritz · 23/01/2016 09:18

www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/ginger

Also note the definition of ginger. Informal and derogatory meaning amongst others

bchvrs · 23/01/2016 09:22

I think a few people have missed the point that you're more bothered by the fact the teacher singled her out + embarrassed her in front of her class. Or am I wrong? Regardless of what was said, unless the teacher knew your daughter would react well + laugh along, she shouldn't have said something that could be potentially insensitive, even if she had no intention to offend.

swingofthings · 23/01/2016 09:26

I think it is very sad that some children still get upset at the reference of their hair natural colour, even more so that their parents would make a big deal out of it, which is probably the core of why it would upset them.

My DD had a girl in her class who had ginger hair, and she went on for a long time about how she wished she had her hair. I'm sure she even asked me once if she could dye hers that same colour. She used to tell her all the time she was lucky and DD wasn't the only one.

I don't think the teacher said anything innapropriate. It was a fair comment that your daughter being 'rousse' would be more likely to know than a child who isn't, and it was absolutely right to point out that it could be confusing because whereas in English, you can refer to ginger hair as red hair also, this doesn't apply in French. You can have natural 'cheveux roux', you cannot in any way have natural 'cheveux rouges'.

Teenagers giggling at something the teacher says? Isn't that a daily occurrence?

BombadierFritz · 23/01/2016 09:27

I'd be most bothered she doesnt accept 'red/redhead' as a perfectly acceptable translation of 'roux'

originalmavis · 23/01/2016 09:33

"Ye Titian cunt." Nope, sorry, it just doesn't quite work does it?

Ginger can and is used as an insult. The spice isnt even reddish. I have the couring if a red squirrel. They are tempered little bigger, so don't call them 'ginger rat' or they'll have your eyes...

I had a ginger gibe not all that long ago by two drunken arseholes in London. I was so shocked (me, schoolyard gibes at nearly 50!) That I unleashed my inner Glaswegian which I do hope makes them think twice before spouting crap at people.

Squeegle · 23/01/2016 09:37

This is such a non-event. People need to stop taking offence when offence is not meant. And that includes teaching our children not to get over precious.

And I'm ginger. And sometimes got the mickey taken. But it's scarcely a big deal! If it's bullying (for any reason), then it should be taken seriously. But this wasn't was it? Is it wrong to use the word ginger now??

swingofthings · 23/01/2016 09:49

I'd be most bothered she doesnt accept 'red/redhead' as a perfectly acceptable translation of 'roux'

What the teacher was trying to explain is that although it can be translated appropriately in one direction, it isn't the case the other way, so she was very accurate to point out the potential confusion.

If you went to France and pointed to someone redhead and said 'Oh, madame, vous avez de tres beaux cheveux rouges', there would most likely be a lot more giggling than there was in that class.

GingerNutRiskIt · 23/01/2016 10:00

I was picked on and bullied for having red hair when I was younger, but I truly believe it shaped me into the person I am today. I actually embrace my gingerness. I've worked in a bar with drunk men making the usual comments about me proving that I'm a "real ginger" and my reply is always, "yeah, I'll show you my armpit hair now!". Nothing shocks me, and if you can retort something back that they're not expecting, it shuts them up. I usually reply with something like "I'm 34, nothing you say is anything I haven't heard before"
I'm proud to be ginger Grin

BombadierFritz · 23/01/2016 10:02

I think the teacher said 'roux' and the student said 'red'. This is perfectly acceptable as an answer wrt hair colour.

What the teacher didnt clear up was the ops dds confusion. Essentially they are both right. Roux can translate as red (point to dd) and also ginger (point to teacher - however i would minus a half point for using an term that can be derogatory)

What the teacher then needed to clarify was the difference between rouge and roux. The ops dd has probably confused them as she doesnt call her hair ginger, what with it being used as an insult, so when shes been taught 'jai les cheveux roux' in her head she has thought 'i have red hair/am a red head'. The teacher has not clarified the difference between roux and rouge

But thats a different matter to why the dd was upset

UhtredRagnorsson · 23/01/2016 10:44

I'm a ginge. And it's fine if I say it but I'm not wild about other people using that term because sometimes it's meant in an insulting way. Depending on where you live, I think... Someone mentioned people with glasses (I wear glasses) up thread and that's a good example - ginger is the equivalent of a rude term for people with glasses. The polite term is redhead, or person with auburn/copper/Titian hair (although those are actually shades of red and not synonymous). In a school setting a teacher should absolutely not be calling a girl with red hair ginger unless she is certain that the girl doesn't mind. And even then it's unwise. As for freckles - well, I never minded being called freckles as a nickname at school because it meant that people weren't mocking my hair for a change - but my DD who has darker hair (it is on the red spectrum just about, but a much darker auburn and she doesn't get grief for it) hates people mocking her freckles now (she didn't mind when she was younger).

SirChenjin · 23/01/2016 10:50

I totally 'get' why your DD is upset. She's been singled out to translate a word based on her appearance. She didn't need to do that - there are plenty of other ways of teaching the word.

Would the teacher have asked the black/fat/skinny/tall/short/glasses wearing/etc kid to translate in the same way? Hopefully not.

swingofthings · 23/01/2016 13:04

Roux can translate as red (point to dd) and also ginger (point to teacher - however i would minus a half point for using an term that can be derogatory)
Sorry but wrong. Roux cannot be translated as red. It isn't red! 'Cheveux roux', can be translated as 'red-headed', but that is not the same, hence the confusion.

The actual definition of 'roux' in French is 'of a colour between yellow and red with golden highlights, ie. NOT red. The confusion comes from the fact that the word is most commonly used as a reference to the colour of hair or coat (fox), which in English is translated by red, but it you ordered curtains of the colour 'roux' and you got bright red ones, I don't think you'd be too happy!

tillyho · 23/01/2016 13:19

I had light red hair as a child. The term ginger is usually used in a disparaging way. See Oxford dictionary

"A light reddish-yellow or orange-brown colour.

3.1 [count noun] British informal, chiefly , derogatory A red-haired or ginger-haired person."

It does annoy me when people use it today because it is usually linked to a derogatory comment.

However I should say that as I got older it had more advantages than disadvantages.

LadyB49 · 23/01/2016 13:29

I'm a ginger, my adult son is a ginger, we're both gorgeous. Smile
Many years ago, at school, I'd have heard, Ginger would u snap !! I didn't take offence.
I actually liked to be different.
At uni my son grew his ginger thick straight hair to well below his shoulders. He never appeared to be backward about being ginger.

I choose not to be offended by any comments..... comedians find ginger to be a good topic, but then the dumb blonde jokes abound also.

Celebrate the difference.

I wouldn't make it into an issue.

Perhaps if DD was prepared with a few good retorts of a positive nature...... I.e. it's wonderful to be ginger/a redhead/

BombadierFritz · 23/01/2016 14:05

Well yes technically roux, along with other meanings, has the meaning of russet, orange/y, and ginger but i think we are on fairly safe ground saying it has been taught with hair colour to a gcse type level or below. I would not normally translate 'les cheveux roux' as 'she has ginger hair' personally, I'd go with 'she is a redhead'. Most translation dictionaries go the same way, probably because of the negative connotations around 'ginger'. I dont think I would ever describe anyone using the word 'ginger' in fact. Interestingly it also translates as red for squirrels/foxes so hey maybe they were learning wildlife alongside the words for grandchildren and boat. Although probably it was describing hair colour.

originalmavis · 23/01/2016 14:10

Google translate says that ginger is gingembre. I guess that this is the spice.

I've never had any negative/rude comments or jokes/questions or assumptions about my pubic hair colour abroad, only compliments.

PiqueABoo · 23/01/2016 17:59

When DD's form were doing this early in Y7 it kicked-off some um.. unregulated chat about 'dumb blondes'. French teacher stopped that and pointed out that DD is blonde and intelligent. I've yet to talk to them in person, but I like that teacher.

[DD was auburn for a month or so post-birth but then turned properly blonde - I was a bit sad about that]

IguanaTail · 23/01/2016 22:36

Your daughter is only offended because you have made a deal about it. It was a passing comment in a classroom. If you spend so much time feeling aggrieved and offended your daughter will pick up on this and spend her life analysing every conversation on her internal Offence-o-meter.

Role model: Move. On.

SirChenjin · 24/01/2016 10:15

Her DD felt offended because she is capable of independent thought and because the teacher picked her out as the red haired kid and made her translate a word based on her appearance, using a word which is often associated with bullying and teasing. Kick a Ginger, anyone?

Role model: teach without referring to pupils' innate physical attributes.

IguanaTail · 24/01/2016 11:25

Gosh yes. Really what needs to happen is that that part of the scheme of work be removed, or perhaps parents can withdraw their children in case of offence.

They also learn how to say tall and short and big and small and kind and annoying and clumsy and funny and lazy and intelligent and silly. Also curly hair and straight hair etc.

There's room for everyone to feel offended and upset. We must insist on ensuring that we tell students never to describe each other or family members or friends. Instead they could describe only fictional characters and never make reference to anyone alive or dead in case they or their relations or friends feel upset or offended.