Doing maths GCSE a year early

[Marmitelover55]

DD2 is in year 7 and we've just had parents evening. She is in the top set and her maths teacher told me that they will complete the year 7/8 syllabus this year and then start the GCSE syllabus in year 8. They will study this for 3 years and sit the GCSE at the end of year 10. In year 11 they will then study additional maths/further maths (sorry can't remember which) and sit that exam at the end if year 11. I understood that it's not advisable to sit GCSEs early so should I be worried about this? She is at a good comp if that makes any difference.

That does look convincing in a general sense, but I'm not convinced by it for A* territory.

It's obvious that if you put large groups of children through GCSE early then some will achieve lower grades than if they'd had an extra year of study, even if most are fine. I've certainly seen on here parents posting that their kid got an A in Y10 so it's not only guaranteed A* kids who are sitting early.

Schools who then use Y11 to do stats are beyond stupid. A whole year without algebra would have an extremely detrimental effect on transition to A-level. The stats on starting AS in Y11 are also poor. Some schools require an A* to study further maths A-level so they are also closing down options for sixth form.

Yes, only the top 3% in the country will be awarded a 9 in maths. There's no such thing as grade 9 work.

Both my girls took their Maths GCSE a year early with the Orion of taking it again if they didn't get the result that they and the school were happy with. It was a win win situation for them, one daughter reset the following year, the other was happy with her result the first time around.

A poster up thread said that her school did GCSE maths in Y10 for able students and no one got below a B, implying that this was a success.

I find it shocking that the most able students are not getting A* or A, which they inevitably would in Year 11.

For STEM students, it is important that they keep up with a balanced math curriculum on their journey to university. Neither Statistics or Further Mathematics achieves this.

Your DC is in year 7! at this age they are very much a product of their primary school teaching.By the time she gets to GCSE the setting will not be the same!

I am told you are not allowed to do the maths exam early this year due to it being the last year of the old system. Subsequently will it even be possible to do it early under the new linear course?

If you had a DC that excelled at maths, likely to get a level 8/9. Where they to study gcse maths until Y11 they would be banging their head on the table from boredom. Isn't it essentially they do the exam early so they can move on to something else?

If they are excelling at Math they shouldn't be settling for a grade 8.

DD'a top set did this. They did repeated exams up to decision day. Those with a dead cert A took maths in year 10 and further maths in year 11. The others did stats in year 10 and maths in year 11. All the people who took maths a year early got A and then A or A* for further maths.

The Sheffield university example I gave is just to show that early entry is not always seen in positive light by top courses at good universities rather than implying that all schools should base their policy on getting students into one course.

oreo you are allowed to do maths GCSE early this year (current Y10), but this won't count in the league tables - they are changing the 'first entry counts' rule for this cohort. So they will also have to sit the new GCSE in Y11 or that school will have a headline figure of 0%. It's to stop schools from dodging the new, appallingly rushed in GCSE. In future years, maths GCSE sat in Y10 will count for the league tables because they will be the new GCSE, but because it's so much harder, and because the grade 9 will be top 3% only, schools will probably not enter even top sets early.

Entering students early then doing further maths in Y11 isn't the only option for challenging top sets. They can sit both in Y11, so they are still challenged with new stuff, but also don't suffer from early entry.

Why not suggest they use the time to teach personal finance, money supply, interest rates etc

Because simple and compound interest is somewhere in KS3 'Percentages' and I value the fun stuff. In my view maths doesn't have to be 'functional' or explicit exam-passing stuff to be useful.

My DD is one of those 'good at anything she sets her mind to' types, so my biggest concern with secondary school is her level of enthusiasm for subjects. She clearly enjoys those lessons which have introduced her to concepts she found interesting enough to mention at home. They also include plenty of 'thinky' puzzle solving stuff. I'm content.

Our school don't do them early either. The top set for Maths does indeed do further maths, but sit both papers at the same time at the end of year 11.

My sister's school do them early at end of year 10, and are happy to get a C grade, and then spend the time on other things in year 11, so my niece has a C which is stupid as she could probably have got an A or B with another year of studying it. Seems they're content to get a C for league tables and sod the kid's prospects! They did it with science too - another C grade!

These schools short change children. If you have a C in gcse maths, A level science often isn't an option and many degree courses can require at least a B in maths, economics and midwifery at some universities for an example.

Seems they're content to get a C for league tables
They have up until now.
But now there is emphasis on the 'value added progress' on the DfE website (always there but school for obvious reasons don't tell parents), schools may change their gaming which would be better for the DC.

At my DCs (ordinary grammar) school the top 25% do maths at the end of Y10 and then FM and stats in Y11. The next 25% do maths and FM together at the end of Y11.They all get A*s in maths but interestingly the proportion of A^ in FM is usually similar in both sets.

Doing maths a year or so early is a good idea for those kids that are up to it. The entire top set at my state comprehensive did it, then Add Maths in 5th form and some of us then sat A level in First year 6th, giving a huge boost to Uni applications, and making Further Maths or its equivalent less burdensome in 6-2. . A bunch of us did Music in fourth year as well. I cannot understand why it has become fashionable to say it is a bad idea. No decent university will actually discriminate against it, and when I did maths admissions at Oxford I looked on it very positively. GCSE maths is dead boring for able kids as well, and schools need to stop holding kids back based on flawed general policy.

It's nothing to do with fashion and everything to do with the statistics showing that it results in lower grades for students.

when I did maths admissions at Oxford I looked on it very positively.

So there's clearly no bias against children with no choice but the local vanilla comp then...

Doing GCSE Maths in Y10 is simply a way of schools flattering themselves. It has nothing to do with students' best interests.

Well to give a bit more context, DD2 is at a comprehensive school that I believe is in the top 30 non-selective comps in the country (according to the daily torygraph telegraph). However, DD2 is not confident with maths (although was previously identified as fairly able), so I am concerned. Made more concerned by the fact that I had heard doing maths early is not usually a good thing.

If it's any consolation there's pretty much no difference between the KS3 and KS4 maths syllabus (and where there is, e.g. Stem and leaf diagrams, if it's not going to be tested at GCSE then a lot of schools will wonder what the point is of teaching them in KS3 and focus on stuff that will be). So if they're saying that she will be taught KS3 maths in Y7 then KS4 maths in Y8, it's pretty much just a label. It's all maths.

roguedad although top set DCs may achieve the top grade in maths GCSE a year early, those who do maths and further / advanced maths together in the same year don't loose out on the extra advanced work and also show they are able enough to cope with taking all the GCSEs plus the advanced / further maths in one sitting. It is probably less of a challenge for high ability DCs to focus on the maths GCSE and perhaps another couple of GCSEs and get a top grade a year earlier than to take all their GCSEs at once in year 11 so I am not convinced that extra credit is due.

The top set at DD's school all take maths a year early and will go on to do AS levels in Y11. In the past all students who's taken it early have achieved A* so i guess they're expecting DD's class to do the same. I think they're nearly half way through the syllabus and she's not even done a whole term in Y9.

Is your DD managing to keep up with her peers? I think there's plenty of time yet for her to be moved down a set if she's not confident with her work. Did her teacher suggest that she wasn't coping?

The GCSE syllabus extends all the way down to 'can add, subtract, multiply and divide' level 3 stuff. Effectively they start the GCSE syllabus in primary school.

some of us then sat A level in First year 6th, giving a huge boost to Uni applications, and making Further Maths or its equivalent less burdensome in 6-2

well isn't that the norm? Some schools do maths and FM AS in Y12, while others do complete A level maths in Y12 and complete FM in Y13.