Advantages of still doing an AS in subjects which have changed to linear exam??

[changename54]

One of DS' chosen 4 subjects in Sixth Form has changed to "linear exam format". I believe this means that the A-level is a stand-alone end-of-course exam i.e. the AS is no longer 50% of the mark.

The school will not be entering the whole class for the AS level, so if he wanted to do it, it would have to be as a private entry.

Just wondered what other schools are doing and if there is a consensus on the best way forward?

My feeling is that having four AS levels will make his decision as to which subject to drop for A-level easier. I also wonder how universities will assess candidates that have an AS level against those that don't?

However, if it's a private entry does this mean the school won't properly prepare him for the exam (so he's likely to do worse in it anyhow....)??

Would be very interested to hear other people's view. Thanks.

How do they figure they're gaining 4-5 weeks of teaching time maryso? Schools I'm familiar with don't stop teaching for AS exams, they just give them about a day of study leave for each exam, and then lessons carry on as normal. And presumably they'd do some sort of internal exam at the end of Year 12 anyway. Can't see how my DS's sixth form will fit in 20% extra content with no extra teaching time

The schools (that I know a little about) spend about 5-6 hours each for four subjects, leaving +/-5 hours timetabled enrichment/ extension/ recovery. Some offer an incredible breadth of subjects, possibly through consortia arrangements. None of them offers AS exams for A2 students in a reformed subject.

Possibly they cannot be bothered, although they seem generally to try squeezing out the last mg of possibility from their students. Possibly they aren't up to it, while yours can keep their cake while eating it... I prefer schools with a strong culture of teacher participation from strategy to daily grind, and joy. With stellar results. However, the results/ business wear/ bootcamp factories around here take the same approach on reformed A2s.

All I can suggest is that you ask Henrietta Barnett how they figured the extra month of teaching. For me, it comes down to whether you can entrust your DC's sixth form education to a particular school. I have little doubt that universities will somehow cope with the lack of AS results as well as they did before modular exams. I also think DCs will be at an advantage if pitched against other applicants with ASs in reformed subjects. If I held the opposite view, I would unhesitatingly subject DCs to the day off and forgoing or doubling up on the missed teaching due to exam prep.

Agree maryso. It seems to me to be a no brainer as well. How difficult is it to understand that these ASs won't be ASs as they've hitherto been known?

I think it's a safer bet to continue 4 AS levels which is what my sons will do next summer. Plenty of the private schools doing 4 AS levels get better A level results than Henrietta B although I accept it is one of the best schools in both private and state sectors of course.
My sons go back to lessons after AS so it is not like GCSE - run off to freedom for 3 months. It is slight interruption and then resume. Obviously some subjects are old system and some new this coming year too which makes it a bit more complex anyway.

I think with some children (boys probably more than girls) keeping up the exam pressure is no bad thing and good AS levels to add to good GCSEs can do no harm.

I don't think people need to worry either way. The universities will not be discriminating against schools which stop AS levels although I cannot see the harm in having good AS grades on your CV so you might as well do them if you have the chance.

Speaking to colleagues, I know they don't consider it a no brainer.

One from LSE pointed out that if you have two applicants with similar GCSE grades and the same predicted grades for A2, why wouldn't you make an offer to the one with an almost perfect score in their economics AS, rather than the applicant with no AS?

Now obvioulsy, for most universities where everyone with the right predicted grades gets an offer, it won't matter. But that's not the case with LSE.

DG I assume you mean that your sons' school is doing all subjects at AS, including reformed subjects?

I'm not sure it is any 'safer'. It just sounds like a nervous approach and wastes weeks of teaching time. It also sounds pretty lame if the way the school is approaching it is to try to fuse the two syllabuses as much as possible. Perhaps the school is pandering to parents who want the new ASs but don't understand the reforms?

That was to DeoG.

Well obviously it depends who you speak to DaMoves :)

Well yes.

But, I'll be frank, this was a meeting of academic colleagues only last week. And there were representatives from all the usual suspects to discuss widening participation.

So I think I would be quite bonkers not to listen to their concerns and take some randomer's word for it on the internet. However, adamant said randomer is .

OP, I would be careful (especially if your son thinks he might want to study Economics). I would at least compare the AS and A2 year 12 syllabuses for the board the school does - this info is usually available online - and discuss with the teacher/your school's HE adviser - what they do to monitor progress in year 12. As your son will be taking Economics as a completely new subject, it could take longer for any issues to show up than with a subject he's continuing from y11.

I can see why economics might prove a tricky one.

My own subject is a bit different in that everyone does it at GCSE, so universities have that grade. Predicted grades for A2 however are notoriously problematic, in large part because the marking at A2 can be bloody flakey.

DaMoves I might just point out here that I'm no more random than you :) I just don't make a deal of who my conversations are with or in what capacity I have them, but it seems from all you say (which you do quite often to be fair :)), that they're at least of equal calibre, at any rate on this one.

Also, obviously, I'm not asking anyone to take my word for anything and never do! I don't care that much!

molio of course we're all just randomers here.

No one should take on trust anything that's typed in a post. They need to do their own research etc.

All I am saying here is that there is still a debate to be had on AS. You seem very intent on shutting that down with reference to people you've spoken to (you never say who though, or in what capacity you spoke to them - not that you have to of course).

But common sense dictates that if you and I are hearing different things, then the jury is still out.

We are offering as and a2-as need to keep our number up. However, it has limited what we cover at as. Therefore if we were a school only doing a2 we wouldn't necessarily be covering the as content. This is because teachers want to teach to their strengths-a specification won't tell you the units the teacher intends to cover.

Well, quite. I think the students are going to be a bit bored covering the same stuff twice.

The cynical side of me still thinks it's to do with gaming the league tables.

I mean the schools still doing AS are going to have massively higher average points per student (though I suspect the no AS schools will see higher A2 grades).

Are universities still going to give UCAS points offers out? Surely they will have to be on A2 results only or not fair on half the country's sixth formers.

With the massive funding cuts in education that are coming I can't see how schools will afford to enter loads of students for an exam they won't need.

noble indeed.

Offering students 3A levels over 2 years ( at 4 teaching hours per subject) will save a lot of money.

I agree, Noble, but like I say, around here it's the state schools which are continuing with AS and the private schools which are not...

Sorry, got interrupted by a toddler before I could finish that post. As a teacher, if a certain route doesn't work for school and students we can do something else (within limits). So with this change back to linear qualifications, it will be a few years before schools really know what's best to do. As a parent, with my son having one shot at the UCAS points, I'd want to be more risk-averse than that. I'd also want to know if the chosen syllabus has new-fangled topics on like financial regulation or behavioural economics, as tutors will be less familiar with those than traditional micro and macroeconomics.

True, the specification won't tell you exactly what the course will cover (if there are optional units - not always the case), but the school should be able to tell you!

Another thing about brand new courses is it can take a while for decent revision guides and resources to become available. I would want to know if the school will put effort into sourcing suitable ones.

DaMoves I don't 'shut down' discussions but that doesn't mean I myself have to sit on the fence simply because others are. As far as I'm concerned there's only one strategy which makes any real sense, both educationally and financially and when it comes to educational issues like this I'm fortunate in the conversations I'm able to have, even if I prefer not to say that too often, or at least not as often as you!

Phiney is right that things have to bed down but schools should be pro-active not re-active where possible or it's the kids taking exams during the watch-and-wait period who could very well miss out. Schools can lead the way on putting in place what makes sense academically and the universities will simply have to make their decisions on what's actually offered. Taking an AS which isn't co-teachable with the A2 and contributes no marks towards it makes remarkably little sense when GCSEs are there from one year previously to offer a guide for university entrance. The point of the sixth form isn't merely to make life simpler for unis in their admissions process, it's supposed to be a little broader than that. I can't imagine that the unis are so intellectually narrow that they won't be able to cope, or so politically or socially inept that they'll be able to favour those with AS, if that means a swing back advantaging the private schools, so I just don't think there's any real reason to worry.

Phiney schools can write their own.

Really?! Ok...even more important to know what the school are up to, then.

"DG I assume you mean that your sons' school is doing all subjects at AS, including reformed subjects? " Yes, that's what I meant to say and they are both doing economics although I don't even remember if that is under the old or new system. I just remember about half their subjects are old and half new.

I have not checked UCAS points issues. I know my daughters who are lawyers found even late on in job applications numbers of UCAS points are still part of allowing you to first base to make on line applications so it never does any harm to have quite a lot of them. I will see if i can find the answer on whether you will still get UCAS points for AS levels but I think under the old system even you only get UCAS points for your 3 A2s and your one AS, not for the 3 A2s you do as full A level so probably it will make no difference unless I suppose you fail the A2 but still have an AS in that subject from the year before to fall back on.

Can I just add a collective and pointless aaaarrrgghh! Why do politicians constantly meddle? And how dare they meddle in such a way that leaves things so very uncertain and inconsistent across the country at the same time as cutting budgets. It's bloody outrageous. Life is hard enough for our young people without all this crappy pandering and meddling. AS's may not have suited everybody but nobody should be able to sweep away the status quo in such an unaccountable and ill thought through way without there being some very clear and worthwhile benefit that we can all see. Rant over.