6th form dress code

[AtiaoftheJulii]

My dd is in y13 and they are expected to dress in an "office smart" fashion. There are constant niggles about girls wearing skirts that are too short or trousers that are too tight and enable the shape of the wearer's bottom to be seen. Yesterday an email went round to all sixth formers summoning the girls to an assembly today, where they were told that short skirts made male teachers uncomfortable (which was challenged and amended to "er, all of us teachers"), and that the way some of them dressed was embarrassing to themselves and anyone who saw them. That's really not the way to go about it, is it? To attempt to shame them, make them all cringe that the male teachers might be looking at their legs, and to be told that basically having legs is embarrassing.

Lots of upset/indignant/irate girls. I think I'm going to have to write a letter in too; it should be possible to police a dress code without using insulting and emotive language. The other thing that has really riled the girls, is that loads of boys wear black jeans - jeans are most definitely in the "no" section of what is acceptable - and when this was brought up this morning, they were told "oh, we hadn't noticed that" (!!)

It all just seems so sexist, and puts so many more expectations on the girls than the boys. Do you think I'd sound mental letting the school know I'm not happy? (They are going to be dealing with complaints from the female students for days anyway I know!) Apart from this issue, I really like the school, and would say I have a good relationship with them. DD nearly always wears trousers anyway, I'm not getting defensive about her, just generally pissed off about how it's always the girls' bodies that are the Menace To Society.

Whilst I agree completely that the reason "it makes the male teachers uncomfortable" is totally out of order, I do gree that some pupils, and it is usually girls, need to learn what clothing is appropriate for different scenarios. School/work is very different to clubbing or going out with your mates.

One thing I have never understood is why females dress in skimpy or tight clothing? Boys tend not to so what is it that makes females do it? Obviously the fashion industry has a lot to answer for but I suspect it's a bit chicken-or-egg.

Moves - couldn't agree more. The statement dresses I wear in my city law firm job couldn't be further from the M&S two pieces they tried to make me wear for businesswear at 6th form! I think when they prescribe office wear they mean 'please wear what a woman 30 years older than you might wear if she worked behind the counter at Natwest'.

(No offence to Natwest bank tellers, just referring to a more understated style of dress!)

I agree that schools expect "business attire" to be interpreted as "white collar service industry attire" rather than "professional or senior management attire".

I think the problem is partly that often the policy is written by a bloke who has no idea what women actually wear to work (having recently helped rewrite a sixth form uniform policy). They're much better to specify maximum heel heights, minimum skirt lengths and anything else they want to enforce. We had a very amusing conversation about whether the top was required to have buttons and a collar or not, and since it wasn't they shouldn't be calling it a blouse. There was another fun time with how to word that underwear should not be visible through the student's clothing.

Probably written by men who don't even know what their own wife or colleagues wear to work. There are plenty of them about!

The statement dresses I wear in my city law firm job couldn't be further from the M&S two pieces they tried to make me wear for businesswear at 6th form! I think when they prescribe office wear they mean 'please wear what a woman 30 years older than you might wear if she worked behind the counter at Natwest'.

I think they mean 'please wear something smart-ish, like the affordable suits at Next/M&S'. Imagine the outrage at selection-by-the-back-door if they insisted that everyone wore expensive designer 'statements'.

I'm shocked and I've only read your OP

This is the contributory negligence argument fgs

I don't think anyone is expecting sixth formers to wear expensive statement dresses, but specifically excluding many items that professional women regularly wear, kind of makes a nonsense of the whole thing.

Why they don' they just say a black, grey, navy business suit with a collared shirt/blouse? If that's what they want? Rather than trying to give the impression that this is 'business wear' for women.

Now I've rtft I do agree that you should write in. Not on their behalf but to challenge the sexist attitude (that it's women who should modify their dress because otherwise men feel uncomfortable)

At work women do wear short skirts, it's not at all unusual or unacceptable

And trousers that don't show the shape of your bottom? Er, a skirt then?

What I would say though is that I spoke to a woman at work who was showing a LOT of cleavage, all the time, and said she might want to tone it down. She did.

I think it's fair enough to specify that both boys and grins need to wear tops that don't reveal their bare chests and bottoms that come to the knee.

girls

At my daughters very good selective sixth form the dress code basically amounts to, "No crop tops, no hotpants, no getting your cleavage out".

DD's friends wear shorts, dungarees, band T shirts and Doc Martins. Many have coloured hair and piercings. They will mostly be getting As and Bs for their Alevels and going to very good universities.

Insisting kids wear Next suits is an absolute nonsense.

business dress is completely unclear.

they should just call it "choose your own uniform" consisting of dress/skirt/tailored trousers, shirt/top, blazer.

It's a nice idea for have the kids to get used to wearing work clothes and already having "interview" ready outfits in their wardrobes. That way, when they go for a job interview, they won't feel awkward in the clothes, and they won't have to go and spend a bunch of money in a hurry for an interview suit/dress on Monday.

However, it sounds like the school hasn't achieved this at all. The boys are in jeans! The girls don't sound appropriate either.

Most worrying, instead of guiding the students on appropriate dress for people their age just starting out in the professional world, they have become obsessed with others' reactions to the girls' bodies. Not the girls' problem really.

Well, calling office dress "work clothes" presupposes they are all going to work in an office. Presumably some will work in uniforms, some will work in labs, some will work in physical/outdoorsy jobs, some will work in creative industries with entirely different dress codes.

I run a pretty successful business and I don't even own a suit. I went to see my accountant and financial adviser last week in jeans and a suede jacket. Nobody batted an eyelid.

That's a good point Tinkly. I have read this assuming they are at an traditional 6th form, not a technical college. And, I have assumed that the majority will be seeking university places.

How do DC show up for interviews for academic interviews? I genuinely have no idea. If they are all aiming to go on to university degrees, perhaps the school should be trying to have them dress as they would for an academic interview, which may be fairly casual.

Everyone in my office wears jeans and t-shirts or hoodies.

Well Settling people with degrees wear all the clothes I've described above.

My DD1 is doing an Art degree so was interviewed, with her portfolio for all her places. She wore trendy short dresses, big boots, leather jacket, funky fur coat, that sort of thing. To be fair she did say some kids were at her interviews in grey suits. She got offers from all her, fairly prestigious, choices.

This is a problem at DSs private school. Boys wear two piece suit or jacket annd trousers plus a tie. However, girls wear whatever they can get away with including crop tops.

Another private school I visited clearly girls were wearing skirt just above knee, jacket and blouse.

Enforcement is key.

The fact is that 6th formers need to dress maturely for interviews. Women have a hard enough time being taken seriously at work. It doesnt help if they dress like they are going to a nightclub. That comment I would direct at all women. Dress like you mean business.

How many teenager have interviews though? Kids doing Art, where I imagine the emphasis is more on looking interesting than corporate: kids applying to Oxbrigde, again I doubt they are bothered what you look like: kids applying for things like medicine or nursing or teaching, okay, a dull suit may serve you well in this scenario.

Even for part time jobs, my three have worked in cafes, kitchens, sports coaching, retail and photography. They have secured all these jobs without having a suit between them.

I do think some schools are stuck in a timewarp unable to see beyond law and the city. Scientific researchers don't wear suits, computer programmers don't wear suits, hell my husband is a scientific salesman who last year shifted an amount I am embarrassed to mention: even he doesn't wear a suit any more. Just decent trousers, open neck shirt and vaguely coordinating jacket.

Yes it's a time warp and yes people in different industries wear different versions of "office wear" but for school purposes a suit for both sexes creates certainty. Otherwise they should just go full mufti with guidelines about cleavage and heel heights and the male staff could learn to be a bit less precious about their students' appearance!

I agree homebythesea.

If somebody walked in my office looking like they are going out to a nightclub. I will assume they have not got their mind on the job and are therefore not a serious player and will not get offered the job.

People make a decision within 7 seconds of meeting somebody if they like the look of them and want to work with them. First impressions last. Young people need this drummed into them especially in the tough job market we are in.

why is it always turned in to "male gaze" "objectifying" maybe the teachers (male or female) don't want to see your DD's knickers or thong or whatever. (waits to get flamed)