Can someone explain Scottish Nat5s to me? What are prelims?

[unlucky83]

I thought I understood them - then someone mentioned DD1 is doing prelims in the next few weeks ...(her exams next summer - or I think they are at least). Would have asked but it seemed they thought I should know anyway...
Soooo what the hell is a prelim?
Is it like a mock (practice exam) or do the results count to your final test result? Do I need to be forcing helping her to revise?
DD1 doesn't seem to know (she has ADHD so probably wasn't listening if they were told)
And I can't find the answer anywhere (did find SQA website is hard to follow - but does contain past papers and the marking guidelines -all 2 years worth - but will be handy...)

(Wasn't sure if this wouldn't be better in Scotsnet - I'll try there if noone here knows...) Guess I could also ask the school..

It's Ok - I can answer your questions here :-) Two DC, one just left school and one in 6th year so lots of recent experience.

Prelims under the old Standard Grade system used to have some value as their results would be submitted to the SQA in case of an appeal against a grade from the May exam. Since the Nat 5 came in the Prelim result isn't involved in any appeal so it's become more a practice for the real thing. It's result has no bearing on the final result of the 'real' exam in May/June.

What it does help the school to do is determine whether the pupil is coping with Nat 5 level work or whether they should stick to Nat 4 - although it's sat so early in the school year much of the of Nat 5 curriculum hasn't even been covered.

Yes. Prelims are mocks. But the results can affect what actual exam you sit so they're important too.

Thank you!! So they are basically mocks...phew.
I will have to help her get organised and motivated for the exams (hard enough with teens anyway but with ADHD procrastination is an art form!).
I have a vague plan of how I am going to do it (too early and it won't work) but if these were vitally important it would be panic stations!

As for not being able to sit the exams - I've just had her report and it said she is on track for all 6 National 5 she is doing - all grade C and above - so she should be fine? No matter what the prelim results ...shouldn't she? (I hope...at least)
And they all do the same exam - don't they? They don't have different tiers for different abilities? (like GCSE's ...I think -don't really understand that either)

It is getting her to do the coursework I am actually most worried about...failing as incomplete .

No, no different tiers for Nat 5, just one exam with an A, B or C to pass and a D to fail. They're fairly tough exams, my DS sat 8 Standard grades in their final year and my DD sat 8 Nat 5s in their first year. He did much less work than she did and came out with slightly higher grades overall.

Thanks again ...her school only do a max of 7 Nat 5s in S4 anyway and her 7th subject she is doing a Nat 4 in but she only picked up this year She is bright enough but with no application -I will do my best to support her to do as well as she can - but in the circumstances anything will be better than nothing
School for someone with ADHD is torture really ...expected to sit and concentrate all day - both of which they find incredibly difficult - on things they have no interest in - she is actually doing really really well.
(I think I have it too and by her age I'd stopped going to school most days... although I did wing a few O levels -more luck than anything (got a couple of Xs for not doing coursework ) - and apparently I wouldn't have been entered now - cos I could have dragged down the results tables ...I later got 2 degrees as a mature student but in something I was interested in ...)

Folk have answered your prelim question dds did the old standard grades i didnt know nat5 prelims didnt count towards final exams, anyway would she be allowed extra time and maybe do her exams in isolation (not the word im looking for cant remember what its called ) so she isnt distracted exam conditions can be overwhelming if the have additional needs

Prelims are basically mocks, but if she doesn't do ok in them then the teachers may recommend she drops to National 4 in those subjects.

Thanks MrsJ I know she can get extra time etc - but at the moment she doesn't want it, won't go to support for learning etc.
She was only diagnosed less than a year ago so it is all a bit of a relief but also a bit strange for her. She's not embarrassed but says she doesn't need 'special treatment'...
She did go once for a test but only because that subject teacher really pushed for it. (I think that teacher really cares - and found DD frustrating before - and now with an explanation is really trying to support her - DD says she patronises her )
I really don't want to push it - or her too hard. At the moment we are doing ok . I know it could go badly wrong.
I'm just relieved that she is still in school and hopefully going to get reasonable qualifications - not into drink/drugs/sex etc, no major behavioural problems, no police involvement ...
And if she does bomb her prelims would they really stop her doing the Nat 5 exams - even with her report saying she is on track? I am going to try and get her to do some work for them but my priority has to be coursework and getting her to do well in the 'real' exams.

It sounds like these prelims are just an indicator if she is on track then she would drastically need to bomb them . If she isnt wanting special treatment then you cant force anything use this to see how she manages.

Coursework is a big part of Nat 5, 30 per cent in some subjects (like English) . So obviously is important but there are also a raft of internal units to be bagged and pssses are essential. Really DD needs to be consistent accross the year. If she didn't perform well in Prelims and was struggling with internal units it would difficult to argue her case for presentation (even allowing for ADHD) with the school. Prelim grade is purely diagnostic and the exam experience essential, yes important but give it context. If she's on track at present then her day to day classroom contributions would indicating she's ok. My concern for her is her refusal of special arrangements could she try it for a unit assessment to see how it goes? Might feel less "public" than for an exam being sat by almost the entire year group?

Lid I think it was a unit assessment that she did in support for learning - it is frustrating but she is oppositional and stubborn (if she really gets into a mind set she isn't rational/doesn't care about the consequences - she would 'hurt' herself before giving in -if that makes sense - so if I 'forced' her too she is capable of sitting there and refusing to do anything or doing it deliberately badly to prove her point) so I'm not pushing it at the moment....hoping I can gently persuade her it is a good idea before the main exams....
(She has friend with dyslexia who goes there all the time, she broadcast her diagnosis on social media so not ashamed ...can't understand why she is so set against it!)
Coursework is a nightmare ...just that really. Long term aims and goals and consequences aren't a strength of someone with ADHD. (She had known it was due for weeks but started an English assessment essay at 9pm the night before it was due in...up really late and still not finished she got a day extension and was up again the next day till 2am doing it (didn't come home and start it straight away messed around until 8pm)- I get letters home about not handing in homework. School are supposed (sometimes forget) to email me when things are set so I can do the gentle reminders but see above for the oppositional behaviour ... a frustrating nightmare.
Would be much better for her to just to sit an exam - do last minute cramming and get it over with...but I know that isn't true for every child.

My Ds18 has been been diagnosed with ASD since he was 9 years old. He's very, very clever but his organisational skills are awful and coursework has been his downfall. He was offered support for exams in the form of a prompt but he refused, although he did accept that it was easier for him to sit his exams on a computer as his handwriting is poor.

He did reasonably well in Highers in 5th year but very poorly in 6th year as the teachers didn't spend much time on supervising the 6th year's coursework. He passed the actual exams for 3 Highers and one AH, but failed miserably on the coursework element (incomplete and rushed) in 3 of them giving him the grand total of one C grade at Higher as his entire 6th year achievement.

It is really important that she accepts help if she can get it - it was a miserable morning for my boy in August when he got his results, he deserved them but it was still heart-breaking.

Oh dot how disappointing for him (and you) I can see DD (and me) being there too...it is really frustrating, when you know what they are capable of.
I actually think there should be two options - exam only and exam and coursework... which would suit more children.
Just asked about any homework earlier and found out she has an essay due in this Friday, she hasn't started it and said she will do it tomorrow... I'm trying to get her to make a start but it isn't working at the moment ...
(And actually I'm a bit annoyed with her English teacher as it is part of her support plan I get told by email - and again I haven't been - think I might have to go into the school and make a fuss - something I have been reluctant to do - I think I need to insist on a list of all her coursework and the due dates)
And I thought the toddler years were tricky...