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Secondary education

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Original poster

i thought I had levels all worked out, then year 7 hit

32 replies

kimlo · 24/10/2015 20:30

Dd1 is in year 7, she left year 6 with a 5a and 5b for english and a 4a for maths. Today Ive recived a list of levels in the post and they just seem a bit all over the place, theres a current level, and a target and a predicted level for the end of the year.

Art current 4c predicted 4c target 4c
english cur. 4b pr.5b tar. 5b
geography cur.4b pr. 5c tar. 5c
history cur.3a pr. 4c tar. 4c
IT cur 3a pr. 4a tar. 5b
maths cur 4a pr. 5b tar.5b
pe cur 4b pr. 5c tar 5c
r.e cur 3a pr 5c tar 5c
science cur 4a pr 5c tar. 5c
Technology cur.2a pr.5c tar.7c

Why is art expecting her to make no.progress at all? But then religious studies is expecting her to go from a 3a to a 5c. And technology are predicting she will go from a 2a to a 5c, but her target is a 7c. A 2 to a 7 seems like a lot for a target!

Where do the targets come from? And how is that diffrent to the predicted level?

OP posts:
PotteringAlong · 24/10/2015 20:31

Levels have been scrapped. Don't worry about them!

esiotrot2015 · 24/10/2015 20:45

If they've been scrapped why do they still go on about them ?!
I'd email the school for clarification

HashtagMe · 24/10/2015 22:06

Standardisation of levels has been scrapped but the school still needs to assess progress so may introduce their own system or continue with the old way.

I would probably speak to the subject teacher. It may be art is done on a rotation with another subject so there won't be any progress made this term.

CocktailQueen · 24/10/2015 22:13

Ask the school what system for levels they are using!

Dd's secondary is using levels 1-9 - you start year 7 a 1 and progress from there.

Ask the school to clarify it!

Racundra · 24/10/2015 22:17

technology will have a massive expectation because most children arrive in secondary school with no technology skills at all, other than having done a week bit of baking at primary or home. After they've learnt how to use a lathe and/or sewing machine, there will be a steep learning curve.
Are the targets for end of Y9 or Y11?

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 24/10/2015 22:20

Those they havent done before are started low - languages are a good indicator.
As her english levels are good, english based targets like history will progress quickly.
Technology - kids pick this up quickly ...
Not sure about art as its subjective!!

Original poster
kimlo · 24/10/2015 22:25

The targets are for the end of this year, I dont understand where they have come from if half a term in to the year its already predicted that she wont meet them for some subjects.

OP posts:
IguanaTail · 25/10/2015 08:08

Levels, targets, predictions - heap of dung.

BertrandRussell · 25/10/2015 08:17

It's all very well saying things like "heap of dung".

But the OP has got this piece of paper in front of her, and as to deal with it!

OP- schools use a computer programme to produce targets based on a range of things, SATs, CATs, and in some cases a range of other indicators. This means that they are often quite mechanical and don't actually match the individual child as well as they should. The actual formal NCT levels have been scrapped, but schools have to create their own scheme. Some schools are sticking to the old levels at least initially because theoretically people understand them (!). Do you have a parents' evening soon?

IguanaTail · 25/10/2015 09:23

She doesn't HAVE to deal with it. She is choosing to try and rationalise what is not a rational system. It's pointless. People have said it over and over again.

The only grades/ levels which were slightly more accurate and useful were the GCSE predictions, but even those are shot now because there is no clear benchmarking.

BertrandRussell · 25/10/2015 09:27

But she's a new year 7 parent. She doesn't know that!

IguanaTail · 25/10/2015 09:28

She does now!

vindscreenviper · 25/10/2015 09:35

IguanaTail my son's school is reporting his attainment on entry as E and his end of Y7 target as D, I can't find an explanation as to what these letters refer to anywhere on their website but could they be GCSE grades?

IguanaTail · 25/10/2015 09:38

They will have a policy about how they are grading. It definitely won't be GCSE grades as these are not relevant for ks3, no year 7s are targeted a GCSE D grade at the end of the year and also the GCSE grades are not being used anymore.

Send an email to the head of year to ask for the assessment policy. I can't promise it will clarify much because the changes were forced through in a massive rush.

vindscreenviper · 25/10/2015 09:47

Cheers, I'll wait until they are back after the holidays next week then email. I'm surprised it's not explained on their website or the parent portal, every subject has a score, date of assessment and end of year target, but no explanation of what these letters mean.
I thought that a GCSE D grade was 'aspirational' for a 12 yo!

Original poster
kimlo · 25/10/2015 10:15

I would email them but nobody has responded to my request for a user name and password for the parent portal, so I dont have an email adress for anybody.

They havent had any formal tests after the cat tests in year 6. They used those to put them in sets. The sets have random letters, and nobody knows how they translate, so i dont even know where she is in the year.

I dont know when parents evening is, im hoping soon.

OP posts:
vindscreenviper · 25/10/2015 11:52

I think I know what the letters mean IguanaTail, I've just googled the school name+assessment policy and found a NCTL research report from 2014 which mentions the school as "working backwards from GCSE" when reporting. So that target of D in Y7 does become an A* in Y11, obviously the change to numerical GCSE grades has thrown a spanner in the works which is probably why it's not mentioned on the school website, I imagine they are having a re-think.

roamer2 · 25/10/2015 13:06

From what I understand the predicted grades come from SATS and CATS. SATS cover maths, English and a few primaries do science. CATS covers verbal/non verbal reasoning where a child is sat down in test conditions and told to do something they have not prepared for (which may also throw some children). They all are a measure of how a child did one day aged between 10 and 12 and dc will be quite different age 15/16 for GCSE. They don't cover most of the GCSE possibilities e.g. languages, art, humanities etc

Noone knows how the new GCSEs will work - they don't even have the curriculum yet. All you can say to your dc is work as hard as you can - don't risk coasting.

IguanaTail · 25/10/2015 19:58

No that would be the target grades.

Predicted grades come from the teachers.

wotafaff · 26/10/2015 11:10

OP, my DC's school has sent home target levels for the year too, and I was similarly confused until I went along to the parent workshop that they ran to explain it all. They're sticking with levels for now while they transition to another system. The workshop explained how they set targets for each subject. It was all very logical, with some finger in the air common sense thrown in. The main thing I took away from it is that they're setting challenging targets, and measuring progress towards them, and they are doing it in the most pragmatic way possible.

Perhaps you could suggest your school runs a workshop too.

HPFA · 26/10/2015 12:38

Have to say, I think my daughter's targets are pretty meaningless. She is given an "expected" target and a "better than expected" but apart from English all her targets are exactly the same! So,for instance, she is "expected" to be 5c in History (even though her first attempt at a history assessment was marked at 5B) and Science, where her first assessment was at a 4A!
I do realise that it would be very difficult for schools to give meaningful individual targets at this stage but these seem too generalized to be useful.

IguanaTail · 26/10/2015 13:35

It's totally useless. How much evidence do you need for the child to be at a particular level? One, two, ten? What if it's maths and they are fabulous at algebra but useless at shape and space. What about if they consistently hit level 4 in homework and class work but not in assessments? What if they make two full levels of progress in one year... Should this be their rate the following year? What if they only make a tiny amount of progress in a year? Should they be expected to make up the remaining shortfall the following year and make 1.5 levels of progress? How about if their mother died during the year, or they moved house four times, or they are EAL, to what extent should that be taken into account?

pixZie78 · 26/10/2015 16:50

Our school is using the 'old' levels for all subjects except English and Maths, for which they are using the 'new' GCSE numerical levels. So at first it looks as if they are going backwards in english/maths..all numerical but two systems in play. Honestly though this early in year 7 I don't know how meaningful it is. I was told the most meaningful column in the report was the 'attitude' one.

PiqueABoo · 26/10/2015 17:18

apart from English all her targets are exactly the same!

We had that apart from maths which was KS2 SAT result (in level:sub-level terms) plus one whole level. All of the others were:

(Reading SAT + Writing TA + Maths SAT)/3 + 2 sub-levels

SATs are reported as whole levels, but they do this via annual tables that map between SATs marks, points, fine points and level:sub-levels.

Waitingandhoping2015 · 26/10/2015 17:35

I like the way DS independent school is doing this in Y7, but I guess it is easier for them and at the moment anyway all the boys are fairly equal and the expectations will be (the old) A* or A at GCSE.

They get 4 levels of Performance in each subject, 1-4, and most get a 3 which is the school's expected standard, the odd one getting a 1, a few getting a 2, and the odd 4. Similarly they get graded for classwork and homework effort. So at this stage only if there are any 4s do you need to do anything I guess.