Teachers views on Effort.

[NewLife4Me]

Hello, was wondering if anybody could tell me what they look for when assessing effort.

I know my dd doesn't always do her best and we are working on this even before her teachers provide a report or parents meeting.

Although her attitude to getting it right isn't there I am speaking more generally and would welcome a list please.

Many thanks.

Not a teacher, but

listening in class
answering or asking questions
getting on with work, not chatting
not saying 'I can't' without having tried first
asking for extension work if they finish early
work presented to best of ability (ie not torn, scribbled etc)
consistent standard of work
homework and classwork of similar standard
not rushing, but taking time

According to our reports, "Excellent" in effort is defined as:

Student evidences the following attributes across their curriculum:

Is able to work independently/show initiative without teacher supervision
Consistently punctual for lessons
Fully focused, alert and on task
Is willing to try their best, especially when challenged
Helps others to succeed
"Goes the extra mile" - not just the minimum

Ratings range from Excellent (6) to Unsatisfactory (1)

Having said that, a lot of it is simply down to whether the teacher likes your child or not - it's very subjective.

DS2 happens to be in a class which is generally more disruptive than DS1 he gets lower marks for effort regardless (lowest has been a 4, usually mostly 5s and some 6s). DS1 is very quiet and is in a quieter class though I would say is slightly lazier, he has never had less than a 5 and mostly 6s.

Thank you, very much. Some very good examples here.
My dd is so laid back and I know if a teacher isn't hard on her when she makes mistakes she won't bother to try to improve, hence not doing her best.
She isn't naughty and likes to think she is doing her best, when she isn't iyswim.
So, I thought if I could give examples she would realise how far from best she was and take steps to improve.
It's interesting to see that it's still marked out of 6 anyway

Is it as simple as myother list, with a mark for each of the 6 listed?

I am not sure how they do it behind the scenes OP, we get a rating for each subject out of 6 for Effort and the same for homework. The sheet giving "what Excellent means" is really just stapled to the back. I guess some teachers will look at it and rank appropriately and some will just put their finger in the air and see which way the wind is blowing :o

I don't think your daughter is alone in being laid back, though from what I hear, i don't think girls are as bad as boys for it. Girls are generally a bit happier to try and please. We are currently trying to put a rocket up DS1s backside as he has mocks coming up soon.

He is happy just to go with the flow and as he gets mostly 6s thinks he doesn't have to do anything more than just behave and look interested. He is in for a shock I think.

Ah, I see, thank you myother

I was trying to remember how it was done and can't remember receiving a statement of what each mark meant. This obviously makes it easier.

I am sure if some dc had it spelt out to them there would be an improvement to the results of their personal effort.
I'm quite sure dd doesn't know what is expected of her. I saw her work for the first time this weekend and the effort looked non existent yet i know she things she tried her best.
I know what you mean about being in for a shock and I'm certain dd doesn't know the work expected of her in future years. She seems to think if she behaves, nice to teacher, she'll come out with A*s

Here's how I do effort grades:

Go down the register automatically putting 'good' unless a kid is really keen in class (never distracted, completes work straight away, volunteers answers or asks questions), in which case they get 'outstanding'. If they piss about in class a noticeable amount they get a 'requires improvement' and if they are an utter nightmare they get 'unacceptable' (rare).

Takes about 2 minutes, and I'm afraid I can't say I put that much thought into it.

I know some teachers who automatically give 'outstanding' and only downgrade if necessary.

Effort grades are totally subjective.

I have my pupils do their own effort grades. (They aren't reported to parents,...it's their own personal little feedback and meant to get them to think a bit about how much they are actually trying in lessons. There is a list with "level descriptors" on the wall in my classroom and they rate themselves every now and then. 1 is the highest, 6 the lowest.)

These are all very good and I think it's really good getting the dc to think for themselves and mark their own effort.

If the grades for effort are subjective and as a pp suggested it can depend on whether the teacher likes your child, how does a parent know their child is doing their best. It was by fluke I saw dd work today, it isn't usual as they do prep at school and don't bring it home at weekend.

Well, if you look at threads on the Curriculum for excellence in Scotland, that is one of the bugbears people have. I have a DS due to sit mocks shortly and exams next year but I have very little idea of how he is doing. Interim reports are scores only for effort and homework (subjective) main reports have paragraphs for each subject which mainly tell you what they have been covering and a few standard bits taken from a parabank. At parents night you get 5 minutes with whatever teachers your DC has managed to book appointments with and again you get very little info.

They don't bring much home and you never see marked homework.

Basically, i know my child seemed to be quite clever at primary but I have no idea whether he is potentially an A student or a C student.

DS is useless at homework or realistic planning, but he gets good marks for effort as long as they don't think about his lack of homework.

He's polite & gets the set tasks done in class without disrupting others. He gets mostly good and the occasional excellent for effort.

Effort grades are at best completely erroneous, and at worst very damaging to a child's self-esteem. They are almost always inaccurate.

The only person capable of assessing a child's effort is that child.

Too often, effort grades are used as a 'compensation' for low-achieving students, or those with SEN; but what message does a low attainment and high effort grade actually send out? You are trying your hardest but you have performed badly or No matter how hard you try, you will only achieve this grade.

They can end up sending out completely the opposite message they were trying to.

I wrote my thesis on effort grades when I was training to be a teacher, and have seen nothing in my subsequent career which suggests to me that effort grades are anything other than a meaningless and inaccurate arbitrary 'mark'. Nothing more than teacher guesswork.

In short, pay no attention to them as they are a load of old bollocks

myother

This is exactly what I mean and was the same with our now grown dc, I wanted to get a bit in front with dd.
It does seem silly not to keep parents better informed, not just if there's a huge problem as used to happen/ maybe still does, I don't know. Then, we could nip undesirable attitudes in the bud.
I certainly don't blame the teachers though, they can only do what their job dictates.
So as a parent what do you do? Is it just a case of telling them to do their best, behave well in class, ask questions, put up hand to answer etc.
I do know the teacher of this homework marks it as she had written some very good points.
I may not see anymore though.

So far how I am dealing with it is by reminding them that if they want to get the most out of life then they need to put in the work and that it gives them more choices (at whatever level they are) and having choices in your life is better than having to settle on something simply because you didn't work hard enough/behave etc.

So far I'd say it's working on the behaving front but we do struggle with them simply not doing as much as I think they are capable of - probably spoilt them tbh, nothing to do with teachers. Life has always come fairly easy. DS2 tells me that he doesn't have to study as his friend studied for a test and got a worse mark than he did - I did point out that he himself hadn't got 100% so clearly there was room for improvement, but he seems happy to coast.

However, he has just printed out a 2 page essay, remembered he had a book to cover and a slip for a trip to hand back (which he has lost) so in the grand scheme of things I don't have too much to complain about.

Just had a lecture with DS1 about coasting and letting life pass him by. He tells me he is interested in Computing Science for uni - he has a fantastic PC and loads of money if he needs software but only ever just games on it. I tell him that he isn't showing any interest outside of school other than gaming so that potential uni's will not be impressed. I can't make him do it.

I tell them that I already have a house, a job and a car etc so it's not down to me to do it for them. If they want those things then they had better put the effort in :o

tethers I entirely agree but our DC get school awards on the back of those - DS1 got 6s across the board except for a 5 in PE so he gets no award which I think is a bit shit tbh - he missed out before as he got a 5 in RME one year - that's not even a proper subject imo. So exactly how motivating is that? I am pretty sure that had the PE and RME teachers realised he was missing out on an annual award based on their subjective score only they may have considered differently but that's life I guess.

If I had to give any advice to your daughter it would be to have a good posture and smile - that seems to give of good vibes and get teacher approval if she wants to get good marks for effort. On the other hand, if she actually wants to do well in her exams, that is less important and asking questions and getting on with her work and spending 15 minutes when she gets home every day just looking over what she has covered that day in her classes that would really help come exam time - I've suggested that to the DSs but there is always something more important to do....

tethersend

I had never thought of it like that Maybe I should find something else for my bargaining then.
After having ds1 awful school, but worked his butt off, ds2 better school (just) didn't try much at all, has asd traits to dd who doesn't seem to see the importance, but a very good school.
I suppose I'll just have to see what the parents evenings are like, we are lucky though and are given an online gateway to results of exams, behaviour, and time table information.

retired teacher me- it boils down to whether i think the student has tried their best- again subjective - what isn't apart from maths and sciences?

I agree with tethersend about marks for "effort" and that they are mostly meaningless and can be counterproductive. However, I quite like a mark for "engagement".

I gave up trying in English after spending ages on a piece of homework, to get told I hadn't put in enough effort. I rushed through the next piece, and got a comment to the effect of excellent. What is the point??? Only I know how hard I found something.

Definitely down to the teacher, and sadly, often whether they like the pupil or not rather than the effort put in. My DS got effort grade 1's (his school do 1 for best, 2 for average and 3 for more effort needed) in all subjects except Chemistry where he got a 3, despite getting A* for attainment and 96% in the end of year test (best mark across all subjects). When we asked the teacher, he couldn't really come up with any reason other than that DS could have got 100% if he'd put more effort into the test. FFS!

We had that experience taxguru. Our school gave "prizes" for effort marks and my DD despite being one of the best in the year group, academically, never got her "gold bar" because she never got the top grade for effort in PE!

Thanks to all of you I am rethinking my stance on grades for effort now
I was going to reward dd for effort because I believe she may struggle with motivation for academic subjects if I don't.
She isn't a lazy person by anybodies thinking and works from 8am until 8.00pm, obviously with breaks here and there and Saturday mornings.
I have tried talking to her but at 11 she still doesn't link her present work to what she will achieve at GCSE and A level.
Maybe I'm worrying too much and should wait and see what her teachers say.

Are you saying she does school work for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week and Saturday morning? Are you running a detention centre in your house? Does she have time to be a child? Have you put the hours down correctly? Are you in the UK? If these hours are correct I think her "effort" is phenomenal but also unacceptable to most parents in the UK.

Milly

She boards at a school, it's complicated.
Those hours include everything including prep and lots of music lessons, groups, ensembles.
The academic part is only about 3 hours at most.
She is 100% dedicated to the music part (specialist school) but even though she's not naughty or disruptive doesn't always see the importance of school work, she never has.