DD not being challenged and utterly bored + First detention ...

[Jess39]

First post.

My DD just entered secondary school (was not any of our preferences); she is a very academic girl and now is put in a class with no one at all to challenge her. Sadly nearly half of the class has English as a second or third language and most children have learning support. I have always been in favour of mixed ability but this time there is no one for my daughter to work with or even to communicate with in class on the same level.

Her primary school has always been brilliant in keeping her challenged so I do appreciate she was always going to ahead of others. I just did not anticipate it would be worlds apart and the secondary school would be unable to follow this on.

She is utterly bored in lessons and received a detention yesterday in history for reading her maths book in class after all her work was done. The task was set for 55min and my DD took 9min and received 100%. I told her she should have asked to read her book so the detention is probably fair. She went and apologised to the teacher whom told her to take more time and just fit in.

I was seen the head (as I received a letter about her detention) and kindly requested her to be moved as the other 3 classes have a balanced ability group to avoid situations like this but they refused. I asked if it was possible to set a more challenging tasks. Again this was no. I told my DD not to worry and just do as they say and not to read until given permission. Do they have an obligation to keep her challenged or not? They have a talented and gifted policy so it says on their website which confused me.

Her homework takes her 10/15min a week and my real question is how can I keep her motived at home to make up for boring days? She needs to be challenged. Shall I buy books to give her at home or just leave it?

Warn her that the standard task for G&T is to be an unpaid teaching assistant

what rubbish, students are often given roles in group and class work, fitted to the student, to develop them. Explaining things to others develops communication, presentation and memory, extremely effectively. One child may be asked to support, or explain to one or more others,- the explainer will be learning and benefiting every bit as much as the audience, if not more.

I also very much doubt the situation is exactly as described by the DD. Intelligent motivated children are not bored in class rooms.

G&T has got to be one of the most obnoxious labels ever developed by education tbh. Just creates smug, entitled behaviour.

There are good schools and teachers, so not always bored, no. It's common enough to be described as often though. Just out of interest what portion of a lesson do average ability (for the cohort) kids generally spend in 'support and explain' to develop their communication, presentation and memory? Because surely if its so beneficial as a regular teaching objective then it would be used for the majority of the ability range too.
And yet I find those who implement it as a regular habit only offer this amazing benefit of 'support and explain' to the most able. Goes hand in hand with 'then use the ta who's now free to bump the borderline league table pass grade children.
As a very brief, few minutes part of a lesson occasionally, yes it's fine. As a way to avoid teaching the more able, no.

teaching objective then it would be used for the majority of the ability range too yes it is, but it tends only to be the parents who see their kids as particularly able that get offended by it.

Teachers don't avoid teaching the most able.

No, the majority don't mind at all if its in addition to work of an appropriate level. When it's instead of, parents get rightfully arsey. Although I say that in reference to children who are more able. Possibly parents who just see their child as more able behave differently, who knows.

Again, not all teachers. But some do, either on a personal level or because of school leadership.

What a difficult time for you and your DD.

My DD was devastated when she got her first and only detention in Year 7, something which was totally out of character, so I do sympathize. It had to be delayed due to illness and we had two weeks of her not sleeping properly (stopped as soon as detention was done). In the end it wasn't that bad - she had to help tidy up class at the end of the day and teacher told her to get a book and read (loves reading, but happened to have reading homework!).

As said and I think you're DD will now realize this, if work has been completed and checked, she must ask for more and keep at it. If they can't give her anything else in that subject, then politely ask if she can read a book or something academic. It's up to the school to keep her motivated and challenged.

I think many schools set for certain subjects immediately and then the others around half term when they've had chance to assess them. Are you sure they won't be setting this term?

Do they start setting after half term? They did this with Maths at dd's school. No setting of other subjects until year 8, though.

I had a thread on this a while back. Dd was going bonkers as the teaching in several subjects was being aimed at the lowest common denominator. She didn't get into trouble at all - she is a very quiet person - but was saying it was all a waste of time. In the end dh went to see the head, who was very helpful. Dd had written a full report on what was wrong but luckily the head appreciated the detail and was adamant they did not want to fail bright pupils.

Believe me, not all teachers like clever pupils. Pupils who finish work in a trice, or can answer every question are sometimes seen as a pain in the arse. Differentiating work is a skill that not everyone possesses - and it can be time consuming - so it's far easier to take a middle line.

Jess39 My DD just entered secondary school (was not any of our preferences).

If she sat the entrance exam for 6 other schools she will have been very aware that you were trying everything you could to avoid her going there. Did your daughter start at the school with a negative attitude knowing your don't want her to be there?

Jess39 she is a very academic girl and now is put in a class with no one at all to challenge her

In two/three weeks she knows how every child in the class is performing in terms of academic ability, across every subject area? Do they have to stand up and read out their test scores to the entire class or does she spend time asking the other children what marks they got for their work?

I'm guessing your DC knows she is/was considered academically able at primary school due to the way she was being treated. Do you think she has started that secondary school expecting to be considered academically able there, despite the fact that she is now in with a different cohort?

half of the class has English as a second or third language and most children have learning support.

None of this actually bears any relevance to the academic ability levels within that class. Was there a particular reason you mentioned this point? Is she finding it hard to make friends or fit in?

Many of the children in my DCs class have English as a second language, one or two know three or more languages. However, a fair number of them are amongst the top academic performers.

It is not unusual for a child who requires learning support to be twice exceptional.

She is utterly bored in lessons

So not just History - Maths, English, Science, Art, MFL, Geography etc. too?

kindly requested her to be moved as the other 3 classes have a balanced ability group ... I asked if it was possible to set a more challenging tasks. Again this was no.

Is the probem with the school on the whole or just with that particular class? If the problem is with the shool on the whole, then moving classes will make no difference.

Do they have an obligation to keep her challenged or not

How would the school know what your DC needs in order to be challenged if they don't actually know where she is academically?

Whilst the school will have had information passed to them by your DDs primary school, they will want to carry out their own tests/assessments.

They have a talented and gifted policy so it says on their website which confused me.

When you visited the school prior to starting, did you discuss their talented and gifted policy with then along with what would qualify a child to be considered G&T?

Has the school confirmed that they consider your DC to be academically able in the context of her secondary school cohort?

Her homework takes her 10/15min a week

Has the school told you that the level of homework currently being set will stay the same throughout the year?

how can I keep her motived at home to make up for boring days?

Is she also finding her school friends boring?

What out of school clubs is she a member of? My DCs do so many clubs their feet hardly touch the ground.

She needs to be challenged.

What is she most interested in? Can she set and work on her own projects at home. My DD loves writing her own stories, fact books and doing drawing etc. My DS has tought himself web page design, some computer programming and loves looking up maths problems and trying to work them out (that's when he can drag himself away from the x-box).

Are there any national competitons she can enter?

Has your DD joined any extra curricular clubs/groups at school that will stimulate her interest - debate club etc.?

Shall I buy books to give her

Let her choose her own books from your local library (assuming you have one you can access easily).

I agree it is too early to really expect much from the school. At this stage, their priority is not academic challenges but the social aspect of settling in, making new friends, getting used to the shift from primary school.

Both my kids hated the first term of Year 7. They revisited everything they had already done in year 5 and 6. They didn't have any issues adjusting to secondary set-ups, making sure to bring the right things on the right day, etc... However, they had to accept that that's how it was.

Their school doesn't do sets in year 7 either, so that didn't help. I was a bit concerned with my eldest as she really seemed to regress at first but she had parents' evening in November, and that's why I mentioned ability. Some teachers actually asked DD if she was challenged enough, and she shyly responded that she wasn't. I saw a massive difference after that, most teachers making sure to have extra work to give her after she finished the normal work much sooner. She actually ended up getting quite a bit of one to one sessions as a result.

The same thing happened with DS and again, it was after parents' evenings that he got to do harder work. In the meantime, DD used to ask her teacher what she could do when she had finished and to start with was usually told to read something, so that's what she did.

Agree with senua.

My DC was G&T at primary. Typically they would finish the maths worksheet within a few minutes. They would then quickly finish the extension sheet. Then they would spend the last 30 minutes of the lesson 'helping' their class mates with their maths.

This was meant to help DC 'explore' their maths knowledge and to broaden it.

It didn't. They just got bored. And just because they instantly grasped every new maths concept it didn't mean they could clearly explain their understanding in a way their slower classmates would understand. Because it was all so easy and obvious to DC they would just skip several steps whilst explaining, assuming it was also obvious to their classmates.

Just totally unfair. For DC and their classmates.

I know this happened very regularly because DC reported it. And because a good friend of mine worked as a 'paid' TA often in the same classroom as DC.

'Teachers don't avoid teaching the most able'

charis I beg to differ. In Yr 6 DC was farmed out to another school for 2 hours per week to do some Level 6 maths in preparation for the SATs.

Their HT quite candidly admitted they didn't have a teacher who felt confident of working through that high a standard of maths with DC (who went on to get a Level 6a in the SATs).

Bit harsh, MTHB, but I like an MNer who speaks their mind & doesn't give a damn what others think.

Mumtryingherbest I wasn't aware I had to run my posts past you first for approval?

My apologies, I must have missed the memo.

But to appease you, I was actually agreeing with another poster in that G&T pupils can be used as unpaid TAs and citing my personal experience of it.

As for my DC's school it certainly wasn't dire. It was rather good in most respects aside from the maths provision for a potential Level 6 pupil.

I actually saw DC being farmed out as a positive thing, as they enjoyed working with pupils of a similar ability. And it wasn't just all Level 6 preparation, the teacher had them doing various 'fun' maths challenges too.

But all's well that ends well. They came out with a Level 6a

Oh, and DC was farmed out for 2 hours per week for just 6 weeks. So 12 hours in total. Is that okay, or do you consider that 'way more than is needed for an academically able child?'

But now that my DC has also just moved into Yr 7, hopefully my recounting of their transition experience (you know, like the OP asked in their post title) might help the OP?

But I think that's for the OP to decide, rather than you deciding on her behalf perhaps.

Ooops, my bad

Just realised I have blended two different threads together Really mustn't drink wine and MN at the same time.

I'm a secondary teacher and I would expect there to be three different levels of challenge in most classrooms on most days. I wouldn't expect to teach every pupil in a mixed ability class the exact same thing or give them the same work, even 3 weeks in to autumn term. I'm pretty shocked that, even after complaining, you and your child have made no progress with the teacher.

The only thing I can think of is that the behaviour in the school is really poor and for the first few weeks they are really emphasising the demand for obedience, over everything else. Things could improve once they feel like they've stamped their mark hard enough on the new kids.

I would get some books relating to the current topic and agree with the teacher that once your child completes the work, she will then move on to reading and producing some work based on the book.

Just double check there's not loads of eye rolling or big sighs of boredom from your child during lessons because that's just going to irritate the teacher who could then become a bit snippy.

+1 smee
I can see that the OP has already taken a dislike on the new class based on the assumption that the entire 'lot' of children are 'incapable'. Having English as a second language doesn't make the children thick + will definitely NOT damage your bright child's education! Do you really think the teachers at the school you are talking about are amateurs? The first half-term of school is not for starting to 'challenge' the pupils... Is about helping the students to get to know each other, helping them settle or adjust to the new environment or routines and observing them during class tasks in order to assess them correctly for all subjects. After Christmas you will know who the 'clever' pupils are in that class and what set they will be in. Early days to suggest your DD is the only bright child in the class.

EAL students usually do better in their GCSEs than English speakers.

This makes me really sad and angry ( as a teacher and as a parent)
If a child finished the task early then there should be extension tasks available , but she does need to ask the teacher if the teacher has not noticed, not just take out other work.
I once gave a RightLittleMadam Y7 girl a detention for taking out her kindle and reading it, instead of putting up her hand to let me know she had finished.

In have to say my first thought was punishment? for finishing work set, 100% correctly and challenging herself/ educating herself further by reading a maths textbook?

I'd also be sending a slightly PA email questioning if this was correct and asking how the school are going to ensure the teacher meets her personal needs in future and what the school expected for to do for the other 44 minutes? Because I'm sure as hell it wasn't going to be taught more if the teachers attention is taken up supporting pupils that need it.

I'd ask if as Dd is being punished for teaching herself the teacher is being punished for not teaching her?!

I'm usually on the side of teachers, or at least understanding of them, even when I'm fighting for the support my DS with ASD needs. But this is beyond acceptable even by my standards!

I'd be pissed off if I found a kid in my class reading a book 'because they'd finished the work', but that's because I'd have harder work that I could give her if she asked. That the teacher said she should have stretched the task out instead of providing extension work is what's unacceptable. The detention could be justified otherwise.

Why on Earth did your DD get a detention for something the school is (or supposed to be) encouraging her to do?!