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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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New recruit teacher is inadequate

459 replies

BoboChic · 15/09/2015 06:41

This, basically. DD in Y7 started secondary school 2 weeks ago. One - and only one - of her teachers is totally inadequate. He is a new recruit. Parents and pupils have noticed pretty quickly that he doesn't have the first inkling of the subject he is supposed to be teaching. One approach has already been made to the school to alert them. What are the best words to use to describe this situation? Inadequate? Lacking subject knowledge?

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 17/09/2015 19:04

That has been my observation too, MrsS. The level of grammar my DCs were tackling at age 8 and 9 astonished me. They were most definitely on their own with their grammar homework Smile. They were also taught to write the mechanics of composition and rhetoric and practiced exhaustively for years in English, history, mfl, and other subjects. This is something Irish students in my day were left to pick up for themselves.

Sausagesforteatime · 17/09/2015 19:04

Seems like this thread works on two levels: posters who know exactly who the OP is, down to the specific school and everyone else who is utterly bamboozled by what can only be described as OP's narcissism reluctance to tell the full story.

Bolograph · 17/09/2015 19:19

Not to mention the usual self absorbed nature of the expat spouse world which makes one glad, in general, that they are over there rather than over here. Perhaps if they got a job they would have better things to do than poke at the details of their children's expensive but, apparently, deeply flawed education.

MrsSchadenfreude · 17/09/2015 19:50

Sausages - I recognised Bobo's posting style and knew her when I lived in France, so know some of the backstory to this.

Bolograph - I'm not an expat spouse, and never have been.

MumTryingHerBest · 17/09/2015 19:56

I recognised Bobo's posting style and knew her when I lived in France, so know some of the backstory to this - Ooh, do tell :-)

MrsSchadenfreude · 17/09/2015 20:15

All I meant was that I knew which school her DD was at, and that she was considering where to send her for secondary. Hmm That's all. Mine were at a different school, and Bobo was a great source of knowledge on schools and the different systems available - French, Bilingual, British, International, American, Catholic.

IonaMumsnet · 17/09/2015 20:15

Ahem. Just a reminder that we don't feel it's really 'on' to be exposing other people's previous Mumsnet personas or details of their 'real' lives, particularly where their children and schooling are concerned and we will delete any posts of that nature. Thanks.

SenecaFalls · 17/09/2015 20:21

To respond further to some of the characterizations of US education as being "mickey mouse": most physicians and lawyers in the US have majored in a specific subject for their undergraduate degree, not in "pre-law" or "pre-med." For doctors, chemistry and biology are common and for lawyers, history, English, political science and economics would be the likely subjects.

Also, I spent my junior (third) year of college at one of the ancient Scottish universities. I would say generally that my US university was no less challenging, just different in some ways.

Lauren15 · 17/09/2015 20:48

I'm quite interested to hear that some people feel the American education system is superior in teaching English language. I went to university in the U.S. and was told by quite a few professors that they loved reading British students' work because it was far better than the average American students in terms of grammar, spelling etc.

guineapigpie · 17/09/2015 21:20

mathanxiety - I note that none of your examples of community involvement involve parents deciding which members of staff are adequate or inadequate, or deciding that the curriculum of a subject is inadequate, or that teaching methods must be changed, and then going on to devise a proposal for the content of the revised curriculum. I'm all for parental involvement in schools and schools and communities working in partnership, but surely there is a difference between setting out concerns, pushing for more or better provision or better facilities, and telling schools how they should be achieving it and with whom?

Kez100 · 17/09/2015 21:21

So if she is a font of all.knowledge - why ask us, in "little ole me" fashion, what jargon to use?

Sausagesforteatime · 17/09/2015 21:33

Are you sure this OP is who you think she is?
This OP struggles to express herself, seeks help with jargon and has her DD in a pretty ropey school by the sounds of it. Not sure she is the person anyone would turn to for advice on schools.

longtimelurker101 · 17/09/2015 23:40

Having taught in both systems, frankly, a good A level student in the UK is a about a two years more advanced in terms of subject knowledge and application than a high school student. However, due to the massive inequalities in U.S system there are anomilies.

Having ALSO taught at the the American School in London ( which if you follow other threads is why I have been in Kilburn/Maida Vale for donkeys years) I would say that some very privilleged American students are very good.

Medical students here with A levels don't need to have done chemistry or biology at undergraduate level ( which actually good med schools don't want you to have done) in order to progress to a medical degree because they have the grounding from A level. It is just not the same standard as the UK. Even the brilliant (and I genuinely do think it is brilliant no sarcasm) IB which takes in a wider range of subjects does require ( in my subject at least) the same kevel of knowledge, analysis or evaluation skill

SenecaFalls · 18/09/2015 00:33

But isn't the medical degree in the UK generally an undergraduate degree? In the US medical degrees are all graduate degrees.

Not all medical students in the US majored in sciences as undergraduates. My mother's cardiologist has a degree in English literature.

longtimelurker101 · 18/09/2015 00:44

There's no difference in the end product the "graduate" status of your medical degree is there because the basic education that people enter with isn't of a high enough level to go straight in, hence they get a college degree first.

If there were a difference in the quality of a UK undergraduate medical degree and a US graduate medical degree we wouldn't be seeing the brain drain of doctors and nurses from the UK to the USA.

PerspicaciaTick · 18/09/2015 01:08

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread - especially the "Look a badger" comment.

I am in awe of all the OP has achieved, despite the fact that for the foreseeable future her DC will continue to be taught an incorrect curriculum by an inadequate teacher.

SenecaFalls · 18/09/2015 01:17

I haven't said a word about whose approach is better longtimelurker. I was just trying to address your post about entrance qualifications for medical degrees. It's a bit apples and oranges considering the different educational approaches.

mathanxiety · 18/09/2015 03:35

I don't think doctors and nurses running from Britain to save the US is a thing. The brain drain of med professionals to the UK and the US is due to the money, and also because many doctors and nurses in developing countries despair when faced with the bricks without straw daily grind of their professional lives, seeing patients die whom they know they could help if only they had facilities or supplies or even clean running water. Britain, Canada, Australia and especially the US are destinations for migrating doctors from less developed parts of the world. They often end up practicing in areas of the US where American doctors, saddled with huge med school debts, can't afford to practice, or in specialties that American med school doctors tend not to study (general practice) because they will not be able to pay off their med school loans on the sort of salary a GP makes.

the "graduate" status of your medical degree is there because the basic education that people enter with isn't of a high enough level to go straight in, hence they get a college degree first.
This is not really the case. Medical degrees and law degrees are graduate degrees in the US because undergraduate education and professional education there are conceived of as separate undertakings, and seen differently to how they are conceived of in the UK (and Ireland). The liberal arts and sciences model holds sway in the US. A well rounded and versatile graduate is expected as the product of an American undergrad degree course. She is expected to have mastered a foreign language or two, advanced mathematics, lab sciences, humanities history, philosophy, economics, etc as well as English, on top of her major. Back in my exFIL's day, Latin and Greek were expected.

In the UK, undergrad degrees tend to take less time and are more specialised. The UK secondary system allows (or forces) early specialisation and it is arguable that as a result there are many unhappy square pegs in round holes, engineers who can't put a sentence together, English grads whose knowledge of maths or economics or lab sciences is dodgy, etc. You get a situation where a Classics grad from Oxford who dropped maths after GCSE and never studied economics or finance gets a job in the Treasury that she will most likely hold for her entire working life, with goodness knows how much impact.

I actually don't see an advantage to the early specialisation in the UK. (Ireland escapes that with the Leaving Cert. Perhaps that is why the IB isn't so big in Ireland -- one primary years, one middle years and one diploma school in the Republic).

It really is a case of apples and oranges. Imo the big advantage of the American system is versatility of graduates, which makes a difference as economies develop and change especially in a technological sense, and as well as that a well rounded graduate class is an advantage to a democracy. A common language of sorts is spoken. It is worth noting that the military academies also feature a liberal arts education.

It is not only the spectacularly advantaged or the anomalies in the US who perform really well. In the last three years, students from the local high school have gone to St Andrews and Edinburgh. DD1 was placed in Calc III in university and iirc took another semester of mathematics beyond that, doing lord knows what. She did BC calc in high school (an AP course) having started at exactly the level of maths I was doing in Ireland at the age she started high school. BC calc was the terminus of the bog standard bright kid track in maths in the school. She tested out of French in university, having done honours French in high school, not AP. She nevertheless took a year of French in university and did a semester abroad in Paris. Her AP coursework in general gave her a legup. AP level courses are not just available to an elite. DS and DD2 had similar trajectories, except DS did Latin in HS and took German in university. DD2 will be heading to UCL next semester and I anticipate she will hit the ground running just as her classmates will if they go abroad.

guineapigpie · 18/09/2015 07:44

So, have the students who went to St Andrews had their flights, accommodation and tuition fees paid for them via scholarships or the state, or are they, actually, spectacularly advantaged, mathanxiety? Or capable of earning enough money in their spare time to pay for all that? Or facing astronomical debts which mean they won't be willing to, eg, work as GPs in poor areas in future?... You still aren't selling the US system to me.

guineapigpie · 18/09/2015 07:49

Doesn't the US have an appalling record for social mobility?

longtimelurker101 · 18/09/2015 10:06

Math, I didn't say they were running to save the US, it is about money, the degrees, be they undergraduate or post grad are equal.

You economic reading of the US situation is laughable, really, US college degrees are about the same as A levels plus first year university which explains why your Doctors have to be grads first. Its just the truth, I taught AP econ, it isnt the same standard as A level. Sorry.

Devilishpyjamas · 18/09/2015 10:55

I think the junior & senior school are connected with the MD (? Super head chappy) being in charge of both

Sausagesforteatime · 18/09/2015 14:35

Come back, OP, your posts are a hoot. Reading this looonng and hilarious thread kept me smiling all through a boring staff meeting yesterday.

SilverBirchWithout · 18/09/2015 14:37

OP is busy having a bun fight on another thread, which is so amusing people have brought popcorn.

SenecaFalls · 18/09/2015 14:51

This might be a good time to point out that US education systems have more in common with Scotland (more breadth, 4-year university, etc) than they do with England, which is one reason that students from the US can generally transition easily into a Scottish university.