Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

MFL not compulsory at KS4

34 replies

redskybynight · 11/09/2015 11:10

DS's school has stated that, despite the rise of the EBacc, it will not be making the taking of a MFL at GCSE compulsory, although it will guarantee that every child that wishes to is able to study one.

So ... I was wondering - how will children not taking a MFL GCSE

  • affect individual children
  • affect the school
?

Just seems an odd stance for them to take!

OP posts:
moosemama · 12/09/2015 20:12

BertrandRussell do you think the problem with languages is that we don't start them young enough in the UK? From what I've read, children are far more receptive to new languages at a young age than they are in teenage years.

I'm just interested, I don't know the answer myself, but I have noticed that, over the years, pupils in my dcs' classes who come from bilingual families seem to have taken to the introduction of French in primary school much better than those that have never studied a language at all. I also have a feeling dd (6) would be very receptive learning a language at the moment, but it is no longer offered at her school and we are currently unable to afford private tuition. Unfortunately, dh and I aren't much help to her as neither of us are strong on MFL.

I accept your post did say, 'SEN apart', but there are a remarkable number of pupils that fall through the cracks in the SEN system or are considered 'not bad enough' for support/intervention. Surely those pupils need to be able to make individual, appropriate choices at GCSE, based on their aptitudes, abilities and potential to succeed, rather than a blanket policy? In fact, shouldn't pupils be encouraged to study what they are good at, so that they leave school with good qualifications that demonstrate their strengths, rather than all being funnelled through the same grinder. Education shouldn't be a one-size fits all process, by it's very nature it should be highly individual.

In our case, ds does have diagnosed SEN (although had we not fought he would have just been constantly been written off as 'not bad enough to need any help' regardless of how much he was struggling). His strengths lie in fact-based subjects/sciences/technology. Contrary to his primary school, who were the ones that claimed he had no SEN. He actually struggles with the semantics and complexities of communicating and understanding others using English, so taking on a new language on top is an awful lot to ask of him. We did try to give him a leg-up, so to speak, by paying for the additional French lessons/club in infants, but after three years he still couldn't string a sentence together, so we pulled him out. (Something he was very cross about, as the French teacher had a habit of rewarding effort with sweets. Hmm)

IguanaTail · 12/09/2015 20:16

...It's not even a very stealthy boast...

IguanaTail · 12/09/2015 20:20

Children's muscles in their mouths are formed by the age of 10, so no amount of practice after that age will mean they have a perfect accent (although they can certainly improve). Immersion at a young age would help immeasurably. I've taught kids of every ability range, and SEN kids, in my experience, are perfectly able to access languages if they want. I can only think of 2 or 3 kids out of many thousands who were really really bad at languages. There is nothing inherent in the brain of a UK child which means they are not as able to communicate as children from other countries.

moosemama · 12/09/2015 20:29

To be fair, I think that depends on the SEN. If they have a SALT issue around communication/understanding/semantics, it's definitely not going to help. Ds can learn the grammatical rules, but not apply them effectively to writing or speaking the language. He has the same problem with English (top marks for SPAG, but low for English, as he can't generalise the rules).

Maybe he would be one of the 2 or 3 kids you mentioned, but I suspect there are quite a few children with similar SEN profiles that would struggle like he does.

BertrandRussell · 12/09/2015 20:32

I don't know what the answer is. I just know that letting kids say "oh I'm no good at languages" is just a cop out. A GCSE in a MFL is a pretty bloody low bar, to be frank - you don't have to be "good at languages" to get a GCSE. I genuinely think it's the linguistic arrogance of the English- everyone speaks English, so we regard our incompetence at other people's languages as a badge of honour. And it's nothing about mouth shape or accent- you can get a GCSE talking entirely Stratford-atte-Bowe.......

IguanaTail · 12/09/2015 20:34

I agree - it's the mindset.

BertrandRussell · 12/09/2015 20:45

It's like maths- people don't mind at all saying they are no good at maths. But they go to huge lengths to conceal not being very good at reading.

Maths and languages- I think people think you can do them by talent alone. It's OK to say you're not good at them- ir's just like not being very good at drawing or having no head for heights.They don't realise they need to work at them!

BoboChic · 14/09/2015 17:24

I agree, BertrandRussell - maths and MFL cannot be acquired by reading a book or watching media (both of which go a really long way in the acquisition of English and also history and RE). You have to concentrate on things that aren't right in front of your nose.

MumTryingHerBest · 14/09/2015 20:24

IguanaTail and SEN kids, in my experience, are perfectly able to access languages if they want

I'm quite intrigued by this comment.

Is there a reason why, if a child with SEN is struggling to learn English (spoken and/or written) when they are constantly exposed to it in every day life, they would not also struggle with learning a MFL?

Genuine question as I have no knowledge of teaching MFL.

Surely it would depend on the nature of their SEN?

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread