Triple Science and Double Science

[minesawine]

Hi - My DS has just started Year 10 and has been told he has been dropped from Triple Science. We have had no explanation and I am furious. I have put in a call to the Head of Science and waiting to hear from them. DS does enjoy science and did very well in his Year 9 tests, so I am a bit baffled. He is not sure what A'Levels he wants to study, but I think he would have probably chosen one or two science subjects.

Am I right to go back to the school and insist he does triple science, or does it really matter as he will still be taking exams in all three science subjects. Is it so bad to only do double science?

only a small percentage of students (and boys less than girls) are achieving high grades for double science

Because the people who would get A*s in double science are all doing triple, presumably.

By the same logic, something like 35% of people who do Latin get A* while only about 3% of those that do Travel and Tourism do.

This does not mean that those seeking the best GCSE results should drop Travel and Tourism and do Latin, it means that the cohorts taking those two qualifications are wildly different.

Triple Scientists (whether entered for Triple award or separate Physics, Chemistry and Biology) now have to take all their exams at the end of Y11.

That seems wildly unfair: does that really means that people who take Additional and do well can't then do Further, but rather you have to plan to do Triple in advance?

"only a small percentage of students (and boys less than girls) are achieving high grades for double science."

Therefore it's misleading for people to keep saying that it's better to get A/A for double science when A/A for double science is statistically not very common!

does that really means that people who take Additional and do well can't then do Further, but rather you have to plan to do Triple in advance?

Well yes. Generally pupils decide 2 years in advance which GCSEs they want to take. That includes whether you want to take 2 or 3 science GCSEs.

But if a pupils starts with accelerated triple science and struggles, it is quite possible they can move sets to do just double. But you can't decide half way through that you suddenly want to up the science by 50% as you wouldn't have time to cover everything.

Clavinova, you're slightly missing the point.

Given the same timetable resources, it's likely that someone will do better in double science than triple science: less content, fewer exams, less demanding content. The statistical artefact arises because that's not what happens: strong double science candidates instead do triple science. A parent who took their child who was perfectly capable of doing triple science but was going to get Ax3 might well see A*x2 if the same child did double, all other things being equal (which they aren't: for example, they may well end up in a slower-moving group which doesn't cover all the syllabus, because it's really targeting Bx2).

Outside the mad MN world in which a single B blights your entire life, of course, this would be a crazy strategy. It's perfectly possible to do A Level in a science without having done the level 3 GCSE module, but it's harder and the outcomes aren't as good (again, with all the provisos about the cohorts not being comparable). It's not unreasonable for an interviewer to ask about why someone wanting to do sciences turned down science at GCSE. And the idea that any of this stuff is hard is crazy anyway: given the MN madness is about "top universities", a child who can't get 3xA* in triple science is hardly "top university" material anyway, in any subject.

The League tables are changing so that its only the top 8 exams taken in the single session at the end of year 11 that will count for the school.
Early entry will go the way of the dodo in a very short time.

DCs school never used it anyway so there has been no change in how my kids were taught

This is the OCR timetable for Modular to Linear GCSE exams. www.ocr.org.uk/Images/71509-gcse-science-the-move-to-linear-specifications.pdf I have looked on websites for the other exam boards but they have all updated for the new 9-1 GCSEs which isn't relevant for those of us with dcs currently in Y11 (or y10 for subjects other than Maths/English). The modular-linear changes have been out in place on a staggered basis so dcs who had already started courses weren't adversely affected by the changes.
dcs taking Double Science can still take Core Science in Y10 and additional in Y11.
dcs taking Triple do have the option of taking Core+Additional in Y10 but to upgrade they must take all the science exams again in Y11.
So effectively this means that schools and pupils now have to decide at the start of Y10 whether pupils are going to be entered for the triple course. And Yes your dc could move down to Double if they find Triple too hard but cannot move up to Triple from Double if they do better than expected.

I run a tuition company and it appears to us that schools often drop children from physics. Its a well documented fact that we have a major shortage of physics teachers across the country, could this be a reason? Receiving a B or a C on one of the sciences should not be classified as a bad result but its the reason many schools use to drop a pupil back to only double science. As an organisation we consistently prove that we can lift a student from a E to a C and a C to an A with quality teaching so schools should be encouraging their students not putting them off. The national average our children are achieving is a C, a C in my day was over 50%. On some papers a C it is as low as 35%, thats our countries national average! The grading system for GCSE is changing, some bright spark in government has suggested we use 1-9 system instead of A-F. Why? The reason I was prompted to respond to this is I couldn't find a definitive answer anywhere on the science question, schools seem to make their own rules and almost scare munger pupils and parents into doing only two sciences. If anyone finds a straight answer to the question, please let us know

quernster
I would recommend starting a new thread, but want to add that you have totally misunderstood this issue. Pupils taking Double Science still take all 3 Science subjects Physics, Chemistry and Biology. The only difference is that they take 2 units out of a possible 3 whereas Triple Scientists take all 3 units.

catslife I mistakenly thought that pupils could only do double or triple science, but my friend's children go to a private school and they can choose individual science subjects for GCSE. Her daughter is thinking of only taking one science subject, and I'm not convinced that this would be a good idea.

Hi bunbaker the original thread was about double vs triple Science and in state schools those are the main choices (Triple tends to be referred to as 3 separate Sciences though). Taking Core Science on its own is only for the weakest pupils.
In the independent sector schools can have their own system. Given that Double Science is the new norm for League Tables only taking one Science subject could severely limit options later on.

My school has three science groups (pathways) at GCSE. Top science sets are expected to sit the 3 separate sciences in group 1. Group 2 are possibly only going to do the core and addition science. The last very small group probably wont even manage the core science, not sure what they do, maybe a Btec, its invitation only.

The thing is that both group 1 and 2 learn exactly the same thing and spend exactly the same amount of time on Science, but there is some movement between the groups over Y9 & 10 depending on how they are doing. They all complete B1+2, P1+2, C1+2 in Y9 & 10 and its not until then that the final choice is made as to who is doing the triple science and who the combined double science. That's the time when you would expect the parent to be involved with the decision.

With double science you then have Y11 to go over all all the stuff you have learnt to maximize your 2 grades so you can if you want still do any of the sciences at A level. If you choose the triple you spend Y11 doing B3, P3, C3.

So your not sure of 3 good grades you need to assess if it would be better to get 3 average science grades or 2 good science grades. Obviously that's only how it is in my DC's school.

DS Yr11 chose double rather than triple to free up another subject as he probably didn't want to do A Level sciences. Unfortunately he ended up in a disruptive class with many students having no interest in science. He also had supply teachers for one of the three sciences. He ended up with a B for Core. This year he has excellent teachers who stretch him and are able to control the disruptive element - he's on target for an A in Additional.

He now is facing only 3 exams whereas the triple science students have 9.

So, with hindsight, not the right decision for last year but the right decision for this year. With his extra option, he chose Geography which is now something he wants to do for A Level. He's also enjoyed the other 3 GCSEs he was able to choose and I don't think he would swap any of them for the triple option.

"Given that Double Science is the new norm for League Tables only taking one Science subject could severely limit options later on."

I know, which is why I don't understand why private education goes down this route.

At DD's school you get three extra options if you opt for triple science. If you opt for double science you get 4 extra options, so the triple science set have more science lessons. This makes sense to me because isn't it better to get 10 GCSEs with better grades than 11 with poorer grades?

I agree bunbaker. If your friend's dd stays at current school for sixth form, it may not be a problem, but it could be one if she wants to move to another school or college. It could also be a problem if she is considering a "top" university, as she will be competing with potential students with a wider Science base.
Is it an all-girls school by any chance? My old school had a similar system to this for O levels where you could choose one Science subject (from Biology, human biology, Chemistry, Physics or even Domestic Science) and the reason was that the school didn't have enough Chemistry and Physics teachers for more pupils to take these subjects. They also wanted the most able pupils to take all 3 Sciences so that they could promote (very) high grades to prospective parents!
My Y11 dd has opted for double science for similar reasons so that she could fit in another subject at GCSE. (At her school you only have 2 other options if you take Triple Science).

How common is only taking one or two sciences in private? The schools that I know of offer either double or triple the same as the state schools.

My old school timetables a set amount of time for each science at KS4. The top sets sit higher single sciences and the lower sets sit either foundation or higher double. You get 3 other option regardless of which science you do, giving either 9 or 10 GCSEs.

Quernstar, do you understand the difference between the higher and foundation papers? Your comment about the 35% makes me think you might be a bit confused.

I have no idea Rafa. Another friend's son goes to a different private school and they do triple science. The school my first friend's children go to is co-ed (what an old fashioned word) and, although there is an entrance exam, it isn't as academic as some of the other private schools round here.

DD is doing triple science. Predicted to get A/A* in biology and chemistry and C in physics - it's never been her subject and it was a difficult to decision whether to do triple or double science. Hopefully she'll come out of it with two good grades and a pass, whereas if she'd done double science her lower grade would have pulled the overall grade down.

Obviously doing three subjects means they'll be a lot more to revise, but the total homework for three science subjects so far has been no more than any other one subject she does!

That might make a difference. Thinking about it, my year all day triple, with the bottom set supposed to sit foundation and everyone else higher. In my sisters year, two years later, the bottom set took double. Possibly some schools have a bit of flexibility depending on the pupils they have in front of them.