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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

PE Grouped by ability??

73 replies

NoonarAgain · 07/09/2015 18:52

DD is 13 yo (YEAR 9) and started a new school last week. Its a very large comp.

She came home today saying that 50 girls were put in one group for PE, then 50 boys in another.

Then a mixed group of boys and girls. 15 in total. Many were very unsporty looking and a little over weight, according to DD. She was in this group. She felt that it was clearly grouping by ability with a mixed group of no hopers.

How would you interpret this? Could dd in any way have misinterpreted this?

BTW DD is v good at dance and has loads of stamina. Ball skills are grim but her last PE report was ok and predicted B/C for GCSE (was compulsory at last school).

OP posts:

ReallyTired · 07/09/2015 20:43

I wish that my son's school had ablity groups for PE. It would not bother me having a mixed sex bottom ablity group provided that there was a reasonable balance of boys and girls.

If your daughter is in the wrong group for her then I am sure she will be moved.

Original poster

NoonarAgain · 07/09/2015 21:06

ok a few more interesting views, and a few on the same page as me.

i am pleased about single sex groups for PE, its the single small mixed group i object to.

I'm off to bed!

OP posts:

Lurkedforever1 · 07/09/2015 21:43

You miss my point with the assessment. If they do a quick assessment, chances are that they wouldn't be able to pick up on her skills/ shortcomings anyway. Particularly if she isn't great at ball skills but has better endurance. However something like that would be demonstrated in a few lessons.

I also don't particularly see a massive issue with the main focus in Pe mainly being team ball games and athletic/ running stuff. Its just more practical.

ReallyTired · 07/09/2015 21:46

A quick assessment means that more time is spent is actually teaching PE. If a child is the wrong group it will be obvious and changes will be made.

Bakeoffcake · 07/09/2015 21:53

I wouldn't be happy with the mixed sexes at all, but as its her first week I'd wait another week before speaking to the teacher.

ReallyTired · 07/09/2015 22:23

Why does mixed sexes matter if the children are all weak at sport? Its not as if they are going to shower together. The reason for seperating the sexes in PE is that the boys are so much better at competitive team sports than the girls.

WanderingLily · 07/09/2015 22:50

Really? In our school it's because the girls come up with a million lame excuses to get out of appearing with unsolid hair in unflattering clothes, sweating and panting in front of the boys.

ReallyTired · 07/09/2015 22:54

You can be sure that all the kids in the bottom group will come up with lame and pathetic excuses not to do any kind of excerise. The boys will be as equally lazy as the girls.

RaskolnikovsGarret · 08/09/2015 07:40

Very weird set up OP. No idea why others can't see that! I wouldn't be happy and would seek an explanation. Setting, fine, a smaller gender specific group, fine. A mixed tiny group with no prior assessment, not fine. Sounds like they may have judged by appearance ??? Appalling I think.

merlottime · 08/09/2015 07:56

Is it possible that the previous school have passed over some handover notes on the strengths and weaknesses of pupils? We are making the assumption that these groupings relate to appearance, but maybe the teacher has been given some information that has lead to this approach?

BertrandRussell · 08/09/2015 08:21

I think it's very odd indeed. I think setting for PE is vital, but I cannot imagine circumstances where the scenario you outline is OK. I would email the head of PE and ask about it.

RhodaBull · 08/09/2015 08:55

I would have LOVED this when I was at school. I was the person who was really bad at games/PE. Everyone says "Oh, I was last to be picked," but I was never even picked, just slunk over to the side which was lumbered with me at the end.

I was sent to Coventry by my classmates for a whole term "for letting the form down" as I was so bad I was preventing them from winning the Year Cup for sporting achievement.

I was constantly sniggered at. I wasn't overweight, just completely uncoordinated. I didn't even hate games/PE, just hated being the very worst and not able to join in.

To have been in a group where I could have been amongst like-useless pupils would have been great - and may have encouraged me to be a bit sportier/fitter in my adult life.

Ds, too, expresses disappointment that unless you are great at football/tennis/whatever, you don't really get a chance to play properly, because there are only teams for talented pupils.

Feckingfeckfeck · 08/09/2015 09:05

This was how we did PE at school.... Mixed sexes, higher and lower sets. It would've been unfair to have kids that couldn't run 400 meters to be in a set with those of us who were in county teams and competed regularly. The lower set were also encouraged not to apply for GCSE pe.

insanityscatching · 08/09/2015 09:10

They are set by ability in dd's school both my dd's were delighted to be in the bottom groups as their enthusiasm matched their athletic prowess. It was very obvious to them that they were bottom group although it was never touted as such. They would have been mortified though to be in bottom group for maths for example. However bottom group was equivalent to a third of the whole year of a single sex as there was a boy's bottom group too. I wouldn't be happy with the grouping your dd has been put in tbh.

BitOutOfPractice · 08/09/2015 09:13

It is this sort of crap that puts millions and millions of people off sport for life. Along with the ritual humiliation of sports day.

That and the fact that SO many (not all obv) PE teachers seem to have zero tolerance for or empathy with kids who aren't sporty. There is little positive encouragement, just ridicule and humiliation.

I really hoped that things would be different for my non-sporty DDs from when I was at school. But no. It's the same barking, hectoring humiliation from PE teachers and the kind of crass management that the OP decribes.

Parents would be up in arms if a kid that struggled at maths was forced to stand up in front of the whole school, plus parents, and perform mental arithmatic under pressure. That would be unacceptable. But for PE somehow it's different - ie sports day

It makes my blood boil - can you tell?

pigsinmud · 08/09/2015 09:20

I think it's very odd. I understand ability groups, but why such an unequal number? There are 50 girls who are ok at PE and then 15 struggling...seems very peculiar.

At our local comp it is simply split into girls and boys - no ability.

ReallyTired · 08/09/2015 09:24

"It is this sort of crap that puts millions and millions of people off sport for life. Along with the ritual humiliation of sports day. "

I get the feeling that PE teachers can't do anything right. A well designed session for a small intervention group could work well. They could do fun competitve activites that improve balance, suppleness, cardiovascular activites and strength. They would not be comparing themselves to the kid who runs for county. Having a PE nuture group is not about humilation, its about meeting a child's needs.

"Parents would be up in arms if a kid that struggled at maths was forced to stand up in front of the whole school, plus parents, and perform mental arithmatic under pressure. That would be unacceptable. But for PE somehow it's different - ie sports day"

What the OP is describing is very different. Its no different to putting a kid who struggles with maths in a small nuture group of 15 so that the teacher can give lots of attention.

pigsinmud · 08/09/2015 09:33

Oh, just realised 15 in total in the other group. I thought it was 15 girls and 15 boys....even more odd.

BitOutOfPractice · 08/09/2015 09:34

I was just having a rant about PE departments and the ethos of sports in school in general really - I do apologise for not sticking to the topic

And yes, you're right, "A well designed session for a small intervention group could work well." But if that happens in this case, I'll eat my hat. Because, in my experience of many PE teachers, they don't give a damn about lower ability kids and, because they were sporty kids themselves at school, they have no idea how they can crush the enthusiasm and self-belief of the lower ability kids. And they don't really care. They only care about the top kids / teams.

I'll give you an example. My DD1 hates running. She likes other sports and will happily run on the treadmill at the gym but hates running in front of the boys. Anyway, she did a time at cross country that the PE teacher said was "pathetic" and she was devestated because she'd done her best. I gave her a pep talk and we did some sprint work at the gym and she said "right - I'll show her!" and promptly knocked 2.5 minutes off her previous time. She was thrilled. What do you think the teacher said? "Well done? That's great! I'm proud of you! Now let's see if we can shave some more off with xyz technique". You'd think so eh? No. She said "Well that just shows that you didn't try last time. That time is still pathetic. X child can run it 4 minutes faster. " Now, how motivated do you think she is now? It's just crap. That teacher has put her off for life now. It's just like when I was at school 30 years ago.

BitOutOfPractice · 08/09/2015 09:36

Can you imagine a maths teacher saying, in front of the whole class, to a lower ability child "That score is pathetic. X child got 20 marks more than you!"

No, t wouldn't be OK. But all bets are off in PE it seems.

BitOutOfPractice · 08/09/2015 09:43

Sorry about the ranting!

insanityscatching · 08/09/2015 09:49

Bitoutofpractice dd2 currently does no PE whatsoever as she refuses after seeing one of her friends reduced to tears by similar comments made by the PE teacher. Dd has ASD and so is very rigid in her thinking but her reasoning is that she made her friend cry I won't give her the opportunity to make me cry because I won't even take the kit to school.

balletgirlmum · 08/09/2015 09:52

That's appalling bitoutofpractice

Lurkedforever1 · 08/09/2015 09:52

Agree with reallytired at 9.24. Surely being in the handful that are only starting their 3rd lap when everyone else has finished the 1500 and is stood staring, or who is blatantly ignored during a team sport, or who ends up smashing into everyone or ball retrieving in a skills session, or being the red faced panting one whilst everyone else is talking etc is far more humiliating?
When I was at school, one of our friendship group was asthmatic, a bit overweight (which wasn't common back then) and just not sporty. Because she and we were generally considered popular/ gobby, she didn't get the usual piss taking. Long distance runs or cross country, a few of us who were fit and sporty would either hang back with her saying we'd all decided to walk, or after finishing would cool down and go back and join her. And if any of us were picking, we'd pick her first. She still hated Pe though. God knows how the other handful of kids felt.

BitOutOfPractice · 08/09/2015 09:54

Don't even start me on the PE teacher shouting "encouragement" across the field to the girls to get moving or they'd be "even fatter" or "never have beach bodies". Fucking hell I've wound myself up now!

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