Withdrawal from GCSE exam

[Kelly1115]

My son's school messed up one of his gcse exams last year, long story but about 12 children decided to withdraw their children from the exam after being assured by the school that by doing this the subject will be deleted from the childrens' record even though they had a mark for coursework. Yesterday and to my shock I received a phone call from the headteacher stuttering and all apologetic saying that those children have received a mark because for some reason it seems they weren't actually withdrawn as we were promised and my son (who is an A* student) now has F in this particular subject! The headteacher thinks it's due to a clerical error and they are talking to the exam board but with the way this whole was handled by the school from the start I think there is a lot more than meets the eye. What is even alarming is the school only found out about this yesterday despite GCSE results coming out about three weeks! We are in despair and don't know what to do. Has anyone been in a similar situation and can offer any advice?

Stop worrying. If that were me and I was applying to uni I simply wouldn't state I studied that subject. Assuming they have at least 8? The head will be cross as it may affect his school results but probably not as take top 8.

Charis progress 8 is what colleges will use as a yardstick too - not averages.

progress 8 means NOTHING for individual pupils. it is a measure of the value added for a school, that's all. It isn't even any sort of achievement measure - it is a way of measuring value added for schools, n other words, it is an assessment of the ability of a group of staff to accurately predict the future, it means NOTHING to individual pupils, and says NOTHING about their attainment at all.

as in, someone with E E might easily have a higher progress 8 score than some one with 8 x A*, but it isn't a measure for individuals anyway, the average for 16 year olds is taken as a measure of the value added for a school. One of around 20 different measures taken, mostly meaningless, but NEVER of any use or value , or any indicator of a pupil.

Stop worrying. If that were me and I was applying to uni I simply wouldn't state I studied that subject. Assuming they have at least 8? The head will be cross as it may affect his school results but probably not as take top 8.

exactly, it is a year 9 subject, so you are not required ever to declare it. it doesn't count for anything.

Will he retake the subject in year 10/11?
Is it an 'important' subject?

For 99.9% of uni's and uni courses it wouldn't matter if you had an errant GCSE if the rest of the results are good. Assuming it wasn't an 'important' subject.

I've never heard of any Uni that uses 'average' GCSE marks.

The only course I am familiar with where is could make a difference is Oxford Medicine where they look at the % of GCSEs that are A. So, for example, a candidate with 10 A's would be ranked higher that someone with 13A*s and 1A

If I were you OP I would continue to try and get the result removed. Even though it is highly unlikely that it would ever matter it is the type of thing that might bug you son every time he had to list his GCSEs.
If you don't get any joy with the school I don't see what you have to loose by contacting the exam board. If you work as a group then you might have more success.
Good luck.

Is Charis saying that above the minimum (published) admission criteria, that university admissions people then look at something like avg GCSE attainment to further narrow the field (for interviews, or in clearing)? That this is one of the unpublicised practices? That this is done in a blanket way regardless of merits of personal statement or other factors (?) If it's done in a blanket way, then it has to only be the tiny % of very competitive courses.

Why be so ruddy cloak & daggers.

I would also be interested to know Charis who uses the average GCSE score. I do not work in education / admissions so my experience can only be anecdotal but at DS's school and friends' schools I know they often need certain grades to go into the 6th form, sometimes specific grades for the A levels they want to do (as pps have said.) For University, at Open days DS heard about (I think ) average UMS scores for Cambridge, and Oxford wanted a fair clutch of As. At the Oxford open day he asked the tutor if his number of As was enough and she didn't even stop to listen to the other grades. For all she know it could have been 5 Fs. So these may not be representative, but I am just interested that of all the things he thought he had to think about , the average of his GCSE results was never one of them. I also as Bertrand said know people who have overachieved in an A level and yet underachieved in another and did not make their offer (although admittedly that's A level not GCSE and you to be fair were talking about GCSEs.)

Has Ds just been blissfully unaware of something he should have been worrying about or has he not listened somewhere along the line? This is only out of interest, he is through GCSEs now. I agree with YeOlde, in my minuscule and anecdotal sample , "It is absolutely not average GCSE that matters yes it is " if true, was not obvious to us.

You don't need to declare it surely? His y11 GCSE's will be sufficient for uni applications no? Really don't worry about this, just leave it off no?

Racheal you need to declare all your results unless they are ungraded.

I'm also interested as to who uses the average GCSE score when at recent meetings between university admissions and the head of GSA, ISA and headmasters association it was asserted that what they were interested in was the best 8 to 10 GCSEs all taken at the same time ( varies between institutions).

You are quite correct that an F will bring down his average a LONG way, and it is the average GCSE grade that matters

No it isn't. Even when average is looked at, which is rare, capped best 8 average is used, and that for only a handful of courses. The idea that one F in year 10 irretrievably ruins someone's educational record is just absurd.

Yes, I have done RG admissions in a competitive STEM subject.

Pneumometer
But would the DS have to declare the F on UCAS forms? It seems a shame to have to put it down and then explain it, rather than just not mention it.

(Also do you have to declare 'half GCSE' results if you don't want to?)

But would the DS have to declare the F on UCAS forms?

Yes. But no-one would care (assuming they have eight decent GCSEs taken at the end of year 11, anyway). Honestly, the idea that university admissions tutors are scratching around in the noise floor of odd GCSEs taken early and using that to make admission decisions is just excitable stories passed from hand to hand.

Many departments use a floor standard for GCSE to do an initial paper sift. But that's all it is: either you are above that level, or below it. How far you exceed it won't make much difference. After that, GCSEs are rarely used: predicted and obtained A2 Level grades, obtained AS grades (for as long as they last) and the personal statement (for non-interviewing universities) are the important things.

One university that, unusually, makes more use of GCSEs is Oxford, but they use best-8.

OK. OP, your school has screwed up. There info seems to have been wring on a couple of occasions - the date of withdrawal the ability to withdraw after coursework is entered.

Also, year 9 exams DO have be included (please note this is the updated version)
www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1744719

However you can ask the school to give you a letter explaining the issue, they may be able to add a note on the files (though I don't think that is possible these days).

Depending on what the subject is it may not cause any issue at all. FE colleges will listen and probably discount it. HE can be contacted individually and have the situation explained, but if they look at it it will be because they require more GCSEs than your DC will have.

To reassure yourself have a look at any University entry requirements, obviously for the right course, and see what they ask for. What they say they are looking for is their legally binding offers, so if it does not include a year 9 exam, every exam ever taken, or that particular subject, then an F in it will make no difference. Indeed it may be an interesting question to check DCs maturity in any interview.

Oh lord! My grammar... my apologies. How embarrassing. Please don't let it put you off the info I gave

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions. I will let you know the outcome once we have one. Enjoy the rst of the weekend ????

Apart from Oxford and medicine courses,I don't think universities care much about GCSEs.They are much more interested in ASs and predicted A2s and admission tests where applicable .In any case an explanation can be included I the reference.

They are much more interested in ASs

Someone currently in year 9 or 10 will do few or no ASes, depending on their choice of subjects and school policies. With ASes less common, GCSEs are going to be of more interest to universities, as one of the few objective measures applicants will have. However, that's going to be about GCSEs taken in bulk in Y11, not random stuff from earlier.

Are As' being phased out from 2017?

Trout - yes. Current year 12s have about a third of their ASs decoupled from A Levels, current year 11 another third, current year 10s the whole lot will be separate.

I read that Cambridge Univ is still endorsing As's though, and about 50% of 6th forms intend to still offer them (to the extent they are willing to commit this far away).

DS only needs UCAS points not full A-levels, so a string of As's might suit him.

DS only needs UCAS points not full A-levels, so a string of As's might suit him.

Are you sure? UCAS points are widely misunderstood, and the belief that all you need is the points is common but mistaken. A typical offer is "240 points from either A2 or BTEC Level 3". Just racking up the points from ASes won't make that offer. We don't know what admission policies will look like in two years' time, but I would be amazed if a student with just ASes could get admission to any significant number of courses.

Wants to be an officer in military, Pneumo. Only needs 180 UCAS points.
If he gets A in the As he is due to finish in Yr11, I think that's 60 points already.

It's good you asked, made me double check & DS may also need get ALIS points which are calculated from GCSEs & BTECs. So I can use that information to try to motivate DS.

Wants to be an officer in military, Pneumo. Only needs 180 UCAS points.

Are you saying that the army place no restrictions on the source of those points? So if you had, say, 180 points from a Distinction in a Rockschool Music Practitioner subsidiary diploma, say, you'd be in with no further qualifications?

hmmm. we're still a bit far from having to know for certain. Plus the rules change over time.

Army says 2 x A-levels at E or better + ALIS points in specific subjects.

RAF regular only needs 2 x As I think that says, 160 pts.

Royal Marines seem to say 180 pts total, in a minimum of 2 different subjects, and 45 pts minimum each, & doesn't say they have to be full A-levels.

GCSE reqs must be passes in both English & math, too.

Confusing!