School fees - do I have to pay even though the place will not be taken up?

[themonstersmum]

Anyone been in the same position? Or anyone with contract law experience or a school bursar?

Our daughter had (following several visits at open days) expressed an interest in attending a local private school and after an examination and interview was awarded a place. We accepted the place and paid a holding (non-refundable deposit). She then had a change of heart and refused to attend the school during the transition day in early July, choosing instead to attend a local state school which we had also applied for as a 'back up'. The private school were very helpful and arranged for her to visit another day right at the end of their summer term. This unfortunately confirmed her in her (newfound) dislike of the school and entrenched her determination not to go.

We wrote to the school at the start of the summer holidays to inform the school that she had decided not to attend. We accepted that the deposit would not be returned.

We have now however been sent a bill for a term's fees. Whilst liability for a term's fees is set out in the contract that we signed, in lieu of a term's notice, is it reasonable for them to demand a term's fees when the child has not actually started at the school?

My thoughts are that the school is being unreasonable to demand fees where they were given as much notice as possible (bearing in mind that their own application process makes it almost impossible to give a term's notice of refusal of a place as the 'taster day' is not until near the end of the summer term).

And as the school claims to be oversubscribed and thus has an entrance exam and selective interview, they should be able to find another child who can take up the place, if so, they would not be incurring any financial loss.

If anyone has any advice on whether this is a demand that can be challenged I would appreciate your thoughts.

THat's how it works at our school. Once the place has been accepted you have to pay a terms fees in lieu of notice if you withdraw or fail to take up the accepted place.

Yes, pretty standard. And I believe most of them will pursue you for fees and fake you to court if you don't pay.

Yes, it's completely the norm. And has been tested in court.

Your holding the place prevented them from filling it, and right now they do not know when they might get another pupil. Those on their waiting list during the admissions process may well have settled on another school now and not have a continuing interest; being able to fill the school during the regular admissions round is unrelated to filling ad hoc places later.

The T&C are designed to deter hedging. And the normal one term notice period has been held to be fair in these circumstances, as well for ther departures.

Are you sure the "taster" day wasn't instead a " transition" day? Having y day in your new school just before the holiday is normal.

Schools regularly take people to court over exactly this situation, and the schools win. It is in the contract you signed. Sorry.

This is the norm and usually made quite clear when you sign the acceptance forms. As above, are you sure it wasn't a transition day? Taster days are usually ad-hoc arrangements for children considering changing schools mid-year to see if they like it. Transition days, held towards the end of the summer term are for children to meet their peers and some teachers and sample some secondary school lessons.

Well I'm not do sure. We applied to three schools when dd did 6th form transfer and paid three deposits. She met the offer for her first choice and we weren't liable for a term's fees at the other two.

She only had the offer of places subject to our acceptance. We didn't accept but we obviously lost our deposits.

You accepted a place, other children were turned down, they have to do the work to find a replacement child…. Why should they not charge you?

Offer to pay half in recognition of the notice that you gave, they may go for it. Deduct the rest from your daughters pocket money….

Yes they can , and would often pursue this legally. Whilst they may be able to fill the place it might be tricky at this point if others are already committed elsewhere and that isn't for you to judge.

This is completely standard and they will chase you for payment , the way to look at it is yes you've spent this money and not had anything for it but think of all the money you will be saving by her not attending . Short term financial loss for long term financial gain .

What everyone else has said: the school made an offer which you accepted and paid a deposit against. That is a legally binding contract. The idea was that your daughter chose the school on the back of open days/tours and during the assessment process - the 'taster' day was just so that she could meet her new classmates and some of her new teachers - NOT so that she could decide whether to attend the school or not.

But it's not that much of a disaster is it? Galling in the short term but actually saving you thousands in the longer term.

We were I this situation when we were moving. Then last minute, dh's company decided to send him out the country instead. When I told them they were very sympathetic but explained that they would, as they have gone previously, go to court to get the fees for the term. Luckily for us, dh's company took responsibility and paid the fees.
Op, I know you're saying that yours hasn't started at all but that is the usual scenario for this. It's far rarer to leave a school without giving notice than it is to not bother taking it up. Good luck though. You can try and offer the half and see if they accept? Or see if your dd may change her mind?

I think it is pretty outrageous if the school is genuinely oversubscribed and can easily fill the place (as opposed to just PR). If you are "in breach" of contract by not taking up the place then I would have thought the school has a duty to mitigate any loss by offering the place to others on the waiting list and should only pursue you if no one takes up the place since-if someone does take it up- the school will have suffered no loss (indeed it will have made a profit by keeping your deposit). Why not a) ask the school to confirm that the place has been offered to others and no one on the waiting list has been willing to take up the place and b) publish the name of the school on Mumsnet since there may be others with DCs on the waiting list who would be willing to take up the place and who would confirm this to the school/you. If even one person confirmed this it would make it difficult for the school to pursue you.

What kind of reality does a child have a final say on whether they attend a particular school? It is up to parents to attend open days and be sure of their decision before they make a financial commitment. A contract is a contract. It really does not matter whether the place is filled or not. An over subscribed school may well lose prestige by taking a slightly inferior student who does not obtain 10 A* in five years time.

People who use the state school system have to make their decisions in January.

Yes, that's normal, has been the case with all my DCs schools (we had this after a last minute place at a different school came up for one of our sons, we had to pay) If you accepted a place you need to pay a terms notice so if you don't go in Sept after accepting, you need to pay for that first term regardless.

If even one person confirmed this it would make it difficult for the school to pursue you.

She signed a contract agreeing a terms notice by accepting the place. They can, and will enforce it, I know plenty of people who have tried to wriggle out of this situation, they have had to pay every time.

Not trying to belittle the issue because it is still a lot of money but as a person with 2 kids in private school at the moment I would be trying to look on this as positively as possible... whatever the cost it's a drop in the ocean compared to what she's saved you in the long term

Unless the contract states that you don't pay a term's fees in lieu IF they can fill the place, the argument suggested by neurotic won't work....although it's an interesting suggestion. You're bound by the contract so read the small print again and if you have to pay, do. Most independents that I know will pursue this though their solicitors and regularly do.

RachelZoe- I think the legal issue is whether the sum stated in the contract (a term's fees) is a genuine estimate of the probable loss to the school of her daughter not taking up the place. This may not be the case if there are always lots of people on a waiting list willing to take up places at the school.

Bear in mind also that private schools are charities (although you wouldn't think so from the way many of them behave).Should an educational charity really be trying to get fees from her in these circumstances if there is another child willing to take the place?

Really Tired-re your comment that " An over subscribed school may well lose prestige by taking a slightly inferior student who does not obtain 10 A* in five years time." the difference in terms of ability/percentage marks in the exam between those at the top of the waiting list and most of those those who get an offer is generally negligible, particularly in London where the numbers applying are so large.Indeed one very good friend's son who got into a leading London school from the waiting list has always been in the top 10% in his year.

Make sure you give notice NOW, otherwise they might get you for NEXT term's fees

Well I think if the op is naive enough to accept a place at a school that she wasn't 100% going to take then she should accept responsibility.

If the op had posted that her Dr had changed her mind about the state school she opted for then everyone would be saying tough; take up the place or accept no place/place other end of county at the school nobody wants.

I would have thought that it was imperative for private schools to impose payment of a term's fees in breach of contract - otherwise what's to stop 10 families in one year group deciding to hold on to more than one offer until the last minute? All of the good private schools near me are very over subscribed but most dc sit the entrance exams for more than one school and receive several offers. Parents and children would be hedging their bets and changing their minds all the time (we found it quite difficult to choose between ds1's offers.) You can't think of yourself in isolation; there may be 2 or 3 other families trying to pull out of the school like you for any number of reasons - will the school be able to replace all of you at short notice bearing in mind that the replacement families would also lose their deposit and a term's fees at their original school, which may not be as popular as the school you are trying to withdraw from? There can't be one rule for you and one for everyone else.

It wasn't a taster day to see if your child liked the school, it was to help with settling in.

You accepted the place and agreed to give a term's notice.