Any art teachers about?

[VivaLeBeaver]

I'm just after some opinions about whether or not my Yr 9 dd has any talent. Her art teacher says she's very good and would get a B at gcse. I see stuff she draws and paints and I'm not so convinced. I've looked online at gcse portfolio stuff and it seems so much better.....but guess that might be 18 months further on.

I'll attach a painting she's done here....I know it's only one painting but Id welcome any opinions. Her art teacher has a reputation for gushing about how brilliant kids are even when they're perhaps not so good according to other parents.

Dd also reckons the art teacher doesn't give them any actual teaching on technique. Are there any good text books which might be beneficial?

A couple of years ago, DH and I read and worked through the fantastic book 'Drawing on the right side of the brain' and it was no less than an extraordinary experience for me. DH was recommended it by some engineering mates at uni, who had used it to very quickly acquire decent drawing skills, in order to produce acceptable course work.
I can now draw. Actually, everyone can, which is the point of the book. I cried many times while doing the exercises, because it was such a liberating and powerful experience for me, who'd been labelled 'untalented' when actually I'd just never been taught how to 'see'.
I guess I am 'untalented', if talent in art means having something unique and profound to offer a viewer. But I have reasonable technical skill, which is an entirely different thing, and absolutely necessary to acquire if one seeks a related career.
I recommend it highly as a summer project! And, as with all practice, the more you repeat the exercises the better your results...

It's written by Betty Edwards.

That book sounds brilliant, thank you. Off to order it now!

My son-early gcse work- got an A*. Had a really good teacher though.

Just showed my Dr who is year 8. She is good at art but not g&t. I'm sorry she showed me pictures of the yr 9 art show & this is not in the same area. Your dc may have the potential to be good but needs to be taught technique.

Yes, I agree, anyone can draw, it's how it's taught that matters. Your dd will be able to draw if she is taught properly. Judging by that picture she hasn't been taught the basic skills or building blocks of art.

Too often people are told to just do a drawing or paint a picture, but that is like asking someone to write a story without teaching them the alphabet. Our school does objective drawing in every year. Students are taught to look properly, how to use tone, how to recognise that nothing actually has an outline. They are then taught the rudiments of landscape, how colours fade into the background etc and scale, perspective is taught in y9, when the brain is developed enough to do it. If your dd had been taught these properly it would be evident in her work.

Only one other picture of hers at the art evening, dd says she knows the top is wonky but she didn't have time to sort it.

The majority of the other work was from gcse and a level students. A few of other year 9s had work displayed, some better, some worse, some about the same.

Saw dds art teacher and discussed dds options with her and the fact she's not doing art but wants to do it at a level. The teacher said they don't usually let kids do this but they'd let dd. Art teacher says she's quite happy to set dd work if dd comes and sees her after school or at lunch and she will help dd develop a portfolio which is nice of her.

That one is heaps better Viva and if the teacher is willing to give up time to help that is not only nice of her but shows a lot of confidence in her abilities too. At the end of the day, we are only a bunch of strangers on the internet, we haven't seen a lot of your daughters work and also cant comment on her commitment etc. I hope it all works out for her :)

Thankyou, I thought it was better as well. But when I don't have an artistic bone in my body it's hard to know.

At least with maths, science, etc it's much easier to quantify progress and levels.

I do have hope after this evening that if she works at it she could do ok.

well, talent in something only takes you so far - it's hard work that makes the difference.

As Churchill said: "Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential." DSs' headteacher quotes that at them all the time :o

I like that.

I read somewhere with x amount of hours of practice you can become skilled in pretty much anything.

She would need to have a very good eye going into graphics. However architecture is a different type of drawing and she would be fine

They get rewarded for effort rather than academic achievement at school, at least for the early high school years, so it levels out the playing field for awards and good reports etc. The only academic awards are based on formal exam results in the later years of school although there are some other prizes that aren't based on academics too. Mine are both fairly clever but not in the top flight (for their school which is very academic anyway) and DS1 (14) has had a prize at every ceremony so far based on his effort - DS2 hasn't had any yet as he is a bit on the lazy side and has a really slothful demeanor which makes him look even lazier than he is (he is 13 and 6 foot tall and just lumbers about while his short friends look really energetic with their shorter steps to keep up) - he manages to stay at the top quarter of the class with very little effort but has yet to be rewarded and I am inclined to agree with that. Though i have said that if he only looked a little less lazy it would help, even if he didn't actually do anymore...

Has she spoken to a careers advisor to understand her options after GCSEs?

I did art and design after leaving school, and I would recommend going to college to study art (if that's the route she wants to go) rather than doing A level art. Mainly because at college you do a number of subjects such as photography, textile design, ceramics ect and you also do written work such as art history, so she'd soon find out the direction she wants to go. Also I found that the majority of portfolios from students who had studied a level art at school, wasn't as advanced as those who had studied at college.

Also one thing to bear in mind, art and design is a very hard profession to get into and is very competitive. If she's wanting to study at A level or at a higher level, she'll need a very strong portfolio. If she's going down the graphic design route for her GCSEs she's probably best concentrating on that rather than introducing art and design after her GCSEs as she'll have enough on with those.

If as her teacher says she's good at graphics, perhaps she's be more suited to drawing in pen and ink. And trying other graphic style mediums in her drawing, and looking at perspective linear drawing. Her windmill drawing has some good elements in it, I bet it would look much better in pen and ink

Shape has spoken to a careers teacher though Im unsure of what was said as dd seems to only ever tell me half a story! Something about yes she can do do graphics or architecture but she needs a good portfolio.

We have discussed the one year art diploma which our local art college do. But Id been thinking of that more as an after a level, before uni idea. Almost like an arty gap year to get her skills up?

hairylegs that's interesting that you say drawing skills would need to be less for architecture than for graphics? Is that what you're saying? I know architecture is harder to get into from a Ucas points perspective. Id assumed technical drawing skills would need to be very good???

Architecture is mainly done on modelling software - DS has some that he downloaded for free after a recommendation from an architect friend who uses it for all her work. so i am guessing that 3d understanding and computer savvy is as important as artistic ability.

She's forever building very intricate structures on Minecraft if that counts.

I'm depressed by this thread. Who are you all to make comments about talent or lack of it on the basis of one picture? Art needs teaching, just like anything else. Some kids work things out by themselves, others don't. I've spent a lifetime thinking I couldn't draw. My parents thought you either had natural talent, or you didn't, and decided that I didn't. Well, recently I've decided to actually teach myself to draw, and bugger me, turns out I can actually do it. I'm still quite rubbish, but with every picture I am getting better. I'm learning to see in a whole new way. It is a transformative wonderful process. I'm only now realising how non-existent the art tuition was at school. DD is 7 and has had incredible art teaching, and she is really extremely good already. Natural talent? Who knows. Probably yes. But most importantly, who cares? She enjoys it, practices a lot, and therefore gets better and better. Just like anything really.

Your DD might do worse than read 'drawing on the right side of the brain' by Betty Edwards. It is the first book I've seen that really does teach this stuff well. It is eminently accessible by a keen teenager IMO. Op, don't get hung up on this 'talent' question. If she works hard at it and has good teaching, she can do anything!

Zoemaguire, thanks. I ordered that book this morning after someone else recommended it. I suppose I always thought the same to an extent. Ive always thought I can't draw at all. Maybe I will have a read through the book when it comes as well. Id love to be able to draw or paint. My mother is an amazing semi professional artist and I always used to look at her stuff with envy. She only started drawing in her 40s!

Ah oops, sorry, should have rtft:)

I do wonder why there is such a hangup about 'teaching' vs natural talent in art. People don't expect somebody to become a world class violinist without teaching. Obviously there are people who will be more or less adept at certain things, but art seems to be the one area where you're expected to be good without anybody telling you how!

I like the story about your mum - you should go for it too, it is so much fun! Maybe we'll both be seeing our work hanging in the national gallery before the decade is out:)

Seconding the Betty Edwards books - they are brilliant, and do show you how you can draw. Not written for children, though.

Art/design is a very competitive profession, and to get into university you need to have a very strong portfolio. And like wise when applying for jobs.

So yes, talent whether it is taught/self taugh or you have a natural talent does come into it.

It's good to enjoy doing something artistic, but to get anywhere you need to have some talent. And as for art/design ect everyone has a different view of what good looks like.

Passthewine but how do you define talent? It's like chasing your tail trying to pin down what it is, and a lot of people will be wrongly written off on the basis of a couple of duff pictures (like the DH of the poster up-thread). I guess, hypothetically, if you spent a year being taught by the best in the business, working your guts out for hours a day, and still your pictures looked like they were done by a blind baboon (to steal that, erm, lovely simile from upthread), then it's time to look for another career path. But I'd be prepared to bet most people would be pretty good, given enough effort and teaching. Some would be amazing. Until you try, you don't know. If you write yourself off as talentless before you get off the starting blocks (and viva's DD sounds like she hasn't been properly taught at all), then it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'd define art/design as something that is objective as everyone can draw, whether they have a talent for it is subjective.

So for example - "pass the wine can draw, however I don't like the use of colour and perspective in her drawing" so that makes it subjective and my opinion. It's a gray area, and the tutors/teachers will see different things, but again it's subjective from one person to the next.

Ive seriously decided from this thread im going to teach myself via books, etc to draw and hopefully then it's something me and dd can do together a bit.