Private school bursaries

[pollycat12]

Hi,
I know all schools are different but is it normal to have a mortgage ?

Or is it possible to apply if you rent ?

Thanks

Dcs of teachers? I thought you had to be low income to qualify. We are similar but assumed we wouldn't qualify.

I guess we'd look at the local small ones even though they may not have big bursaries simply as our lifestyle would be so different to the bigger named schools, no skiing etc.

My DS can't wait to try rowing at his next school, it was one of the things that attracted us to the school!!

I know at least one GDST school that offers rowing and as several people have mentioned more than one state school. Rowing is a complete red herring in the bursary discussion.

I guess we'd look at the local small ones even though they may not have big bursaries simply as our lifestyle would be so different to the bigger named schools, no skiing etc.

You're not actually serious?

Yes, I know, Putney High, but their solution was to get sponsorship: www.putneyhigh.gdst.net/media/news/article/3710/Putney-High-School-Rowing-Club-announces-innovative-sponsorship-deal-with-Accenture

It's a question of choices. Most parents of modest means would like to see schools choose bursaries over new boats and oars.

Most parents of modest means would like to see schools choose bursaries over new boats and oars.

I am the least likely person on earth to demand evidence on an Internet thread ...

Zero, I'm not aware of any relevant surveys but let's just ask anyone on here who is thinking of applying for a bursary if they would be perfectly happy for their chosen school to decide to buy a new boat rather than offer a new bursary.

Skiing's another expensive sport that somebody has just mentioned would put them off a school. You didn't like that idea either, I note.

Zero I'm really serious. We regularly um and ah about whether we could go private. IWe're both graduates with a difficult run in life living in a variety low income area. We don't feel we fit anywhere anymore.

Of course it's a worry that at any school my children would feel different. Our house is ex housing authority, we don't ski etc. My lack of current social capital would certainly make me feel out of place in a big name school but I know people at local smaller ones where I wouldn't feel as out of place. Surely that's not that odd an idea?

Very not variety.

It's not that I "didn't like that idea". Rather that it's frustrating to see someone dismissing a possibility because of a mistaken, or at least too sweeping, generalisation.

As I understood it Namefor was not objecting to a school's expenditure but to a perceived level of expenditure amongst the pupils that she would feel unable to match.

Namefor. I totally sympathise. The pity of it is that not so long ago plenty of the "big name" schools would not have felt so unwelcoming. Even ex-direct grant schools are now pandering to the super rich and skiing parents have become the norm.

I honestly think a head who sold the rowing boats, closed down the ski club, upped class sizes from 18 to 22, reduced fees by 2% and boosted the bursary fund would make a great success of a school, even if it was already at the top of the league tables.

I crossed you Name

And I'm not sure what to say to you without saying far too much about myself. Your perception is not odd but (and I've written and deleted a hundred other sentences) I would strongly encourage you to dig a little deeper.

Zero, a school chooses its parent body. It can choose to cater to those who enjoy expensive sports or it can choose to widen access.

"upped class sizes from 18 to 22"

You mean 'downed it' surely? London day schools (secondary eg GDST, the Foundation schools) run at 24-26 per class anyhow.

'reduced fees by 2%'

depends what is cut to make that happen

'and boosted the bursary fund'

Where is that money going to come from? Low interest rates mean that most funds have struggled a bit. If you're looking to boost the underlying investments, who are you going to target the fundraising drive towards? UK just doesn't have the culture of giving by alumni that say the US does, but you need to have quite a boost to the fund to increase the annual yield by £20kish.

What concerns me is not how much money the schools adds onto fees to cover additional sports or facilities but rather those schools who up fees in order to provide more bursaries. Lots of schools have very large bursary funds which do not come from the income raised through fees. Those schools usually offer a large number of very generous bursaries to a variety of low income families. If a school doesn't have such a bursary fund but tries to offer lots of bursaries it will have to cut back on activities, building programmes, facilities etc and some parents may begin to feel resentful that they are paying huge sums of fees but their children are not getting access to the luxuries they expected because the school has taken on an increased number of bursary students,
Obviously I support bursaries as my child is the recipient of one (at a highly regarded school which doesn't fund bursaries from fee income and doesn't offer polo / rowing etc), but I am mindful that many full fee paying parents are interested primarily in what a school can offer their own child at a cost they can afford rather increasing fees, reducing facilities and taking on greater numbers of bursary students.
If you swing too far in favour of bursaries over other things I fear that resentment will build among some parents. I hope I am wrong in my thinking but I can't help thinking it.

Sorry about the poor spelling and grammar, I am not very good at posting on my phone.

"Access to luxuries": if that's what you think an independent school should be offering, it's bound to be tricky to find the funds necessary to build up adequate bursaries for it.

One such luxury is small class sizes. In recent years some schools have gone for classes smaller than 20. The GDST is an honourable exception.

My suggestion is that schools take a reality check. The heads who built their reputations didn't prioritise luxuries over access.

The idea that increasing class size is an easy way to make more income available for bursaries is misguided, I think. Just like state schools, independents take their expected class size into consideration when building (and renovating). DS's prep has a stated maximum of 16 in each class, and many classrooms, labs, language labs etc. couldn't easily fit more. When, as now, the school is pretty much full, i.e. almost every class has 16, they do run into problems like the school hall being not big enough for whole-school events.

Take a look at schools' accounts filed with the Charity Commission. Those which have increased pupil numbers and not teacher numbers have managed to keep fees down and to increase the number of bursaries. It's not rocket science. It depends what your priorities are.

Hi , My kid got offerd a place in a good private school in the area we used to live by mean tested award and we accepted the offer , but very new thing for us , Is anyone know or have experiance your children study in this catagory at private school? they will stll give the fund untill they finish the education till 6th former and we have to get the highest grade to maintain the award? I am still confused. at the end we might choose a local state school instead as we dont understand much about this award , plus now she been offer a very good state school locally from the waiting list .

Is they any problems about making friends for them as different background families and financial issue?

futurebright Any independent school that is serious about offering bursaries will have a diverse intake and will not expect every family to have the same level of affluence.

The school must be enthusiastic about having your daughter - and, assuming you chose it with care, it could be a magnificent opportunity for her.

If, on the other hand you only applied, and filled in bursary forms, because you didn't get in to your first choice state school I guess you are faced with a difficult decision.

It's impossible to say more without knowing more about all the schools involved!

Oh - she will not be regarded as being in any kind of separate category. If she has won a prestigious scholarship there may be some public congratulation but all bursary awards are completely confidential. No one else will know you have one unless you choose to tell them.

granola if private schools don't offer anything over and above what the local state schools are offering then I can imagine that a lot of parents will not see the point in paying fees and will go to the state schools instead, leaving less money available for bursaries and the schools financial future uncertain. So those luxuries must be important to some of the parents who choose to pay for a private education.
Parents pay for luxuries in all aspects of life, it's just that when a child is at private school they might be able to access those things at school rather than elsewhere and some parents are prepared to pay for the luxury of schools providing those things rather than having to seek it out elsewhere themselves.
The school my Child attends has class sizes of 12 but the fees are relatively low (in comparison to the London consortium and other schools around the country) and the bursary level is high (around 20% are on some level of bursary) but that is because it is an old school with an active alumni and receives a lot of donations into its bursary fund each year. Not all schools are able to fund bursaries in the same way.
I think we would be quite blinkered to think that parents would pay for exactly the same class sizes, facilities and opportunities that they can access for free at the local state school (some would, but many wouldn't).

ZeroFunDame ...yes you are right , we apply to a private school just to have an option if she doesn't get a decent local state one as you know it's no guarantee , at the offer day she got offered the 4th place so we definitely go to the private one but last week we got offered her first choice , so very hard decision
For her thoughts she confident to go private as she loves that school rather than the local one as they good at arts more than science , so far no decision can be made yet .

futurebright As I said above, if you could name the schools (or even just the area) people might be able to offer their experiences or opinions.

Have you been offered 100% of the fees? As you have accepted the place you may already be liable for any part of next term's fees that are not covered by the bursary. Do check that at once if you haven't.