Further maths GCSE

[var123]

Can anyone help me understand the English exam system, particularly the GCSEs?

Things I don't understand:-

1. Why there are several exam boards, and what it means in practice.
2. Do the GCSEs count for anything once you've got your A Levels?
3. Do the GCSE choices limit which A levels you can do?
4. What the difference between igcse and GSCE is?
5. Are there still resits? Does the child have to wait until the following summer or is there another moment?
6. Why would a child do further maths GCSE and what are the implications if the school does not offer it?
7. Is it the current year 8s or current year 9s who will take the new GCSEs for the first time?

I know its a lot of questions but help with any one of them would be much appreciated!

By way of background, I have two sons, both are very good at maths. DS1 is in year 8 and I noticed on the school web last night that there are a list of GCSE options. Triple science is marked as "optional" but I can see no mention of further maths, which very likely means the school doesn't offer it.

However, maths is my DSes thing. They both enjoy it, find it really easy and I can see at least one of them wanting to go on to university to study it.

for example, in English, everyone gets the same paper but you choose which questions you want to answer and you tailor the answers to the books you 've studied.

It is possible to write questions which can be answered with reference to both the Angevin kings of medieval England and the activities of the Viet Cong on the Ho Chi Minh trail circa 1967, because it's a feat managed for the essay question on the HAT. But overall, actually asking questions which make reference to dates and places does seem quite a useful thing for a history exam. Are you saying that History in Scotland features a paper containing only questions which can be answered without concern for the period that has been studed?

I dont know. I didn't do history at school - I did modern studies (another difference).
I think those who studied history o grade did things like the Highland clearances and world war 1.
Tbh I am a little surprised by the implication that international history is taught ahead of British history.

1967 is history?! omg I feel old!!

I am a little surprised by the implication that international history is taught ahead of British history.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/history_club/1567205-When-does-current-affairs-become-history-Or-am-I-now-utterly-past-it

Unfortunately, it didn't attract many responses. But from those it did, it seems that lots of things within my lifetime are now counted as history. Also that it's been like that for some time already.

And yes, in schools for O and A level, the curriculum was based on world history not just British (one paper on each, for my A level)

var if you want to know what the further maths papers are like, they are here: www.mrbartonmaths.com/gcsefm.htm

DD was studying fall of Berlin Wall in history. 1989, anyone?
I thought it was great, I could tell her how people felt about it.

since history is the recent past (apparently), I wonder if they'll do 9/11 for the current year 8s? At least its interesting and well-documented.

since history is the recent past (apparently), I wonder if they'll do 9/11 for the current year 8s?

When I was at school in the 1970 and early 1980ss, they did talk about the second world war in history. By your logic that was wrong, as it was only 36 years from VE day to my O Level history exam. The last helicopter lifted off the roof of the US embassy in Saigon forty years ago (not a very good terminus ad quem, but it'll do).

9/11 is talked about in schools. Y8s weren't born when it happened.

11/9/2001
Current year 8s were born between 1/9/01 & 31/8/02
So some of them were actually being born as it happened.

My DS is in Y11 and they have been doing the Good Friday Agreement in GCSE History which was happening as they were being born.

I was taken aback when pg with DD, due 2 weeks after 9/11. All of us then pg talked a lot about it.

Lol, my brother was quite distressed that all the work he did for Government and Politics A-Level in 1979, was what my ds was studying for his History A-Level in 2014

Re the triple (separate) sciences - you don't have to have done those to do A-level. 6th Forms understand than not all schools have offered the same opportunities to all pupils so not everyone had the change to do the sep sciences. Same with the further maths GCSE - there aren't that many schools that offer it, so dc aren't penalised or considered lesser applicants for not having it.

My DD's school enters the top maths set for maths GCSE a year early then spends Y11 on further maths and sits the GCSE at the end yr 11. It is seen as the best way of stretching the most able mathematicians and makes the leap to A level a bit easier.

Further maths GCSE isn't a requirement to take maths A level but it seems to help with the shift up to A level standard.

They don't list it in the school prospectus as an available option as only a few are put forward for it.

OnGoldenPond - thanks, that's interesting.

TBH After everything I learned on this thread, I am going to stick with this school and trust it, unless our circumstances change again and we have no choice but to move.

The boredom, particularly in maths, is an issue but I don't see what I can reasonably ask the school to do. They already know, and nothing has changed.

I think DS1 will just have to suck it up at school and accept learning at home if he wants to develop his ability in maths sideways. Ds2 is about to go into year 7 and he's probably an even stronger mathematician than DS1, but at least I am prepared for what to expect this time around.

So, thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread. I really learned a lot (even that history is about events that happened when I was an adult!)

My DD's school enters the top maths set for maths GCSE a year early then spends Y11 on further math

As did (past tense) my children's, a top-10 super-selective.

They've stopped, because the evidence that it helped the people that went on to A Level to do better was marginal, but the evidence that slightly weaker candidates got lower GCSE grades than they otherwise might was overwhelming. The question is basically "does every child in the school who is entered early get an Astar? If not, why were they entered early?"

The way DDs school does it is good - the able kids can do FM (in class for set 1, optional after school club for others predicted A/A*). They all do normal GCSE in yr 11, and its up to them if they want to be entered for the exam. The ones who don't in set 1 can opt to just do extra past papers etc or they (and the after school club) can do it just to learn for the sake of learning. I can't see a flaw in this approach.

Me neither, ErrolTheDragon.

I asked DS1 about how maths is going this morning (with this thread in mind). He said its boring because its easy.

Each lesson, he either had the knowledge already or he learns something new, but it only takes a few seconds, whereas the rest of the class use the whole lesson to learn it. That's exactly what he said.

I know that sounds arrogant, but he's really very quiet and unassuming, which i think may be part of the problem i.e. he isn't making a fuss so its easy to forget about him. He doesn't even get many house points (e.g. he's collected about 10 this year, whereas other able children that came up from primary school with him have around 200-300).

Anyway, the final thing he said, just as he got out of the car, was please don't say anything to the teacher. Maybe next year the classes will be set differently, I'll get a different teacher and it might get better.

he either had the knowledge already or he learns something new, but it only takes a few seconds,

At GCSE, that's true for anyone who's going to go on to do decently at A Level. I'm certainly not a mathematician, but I did well enough until undergraduate level; I took fifteen minutes to do my O Level maths paper, twiddled my thumbs for fifteen and left at the 30 minute point. The same's generally true for most decent pupils. Accelerating their education rarely ends well, and is pointless anyway: if they do A Level maths at 14, what are they going to do next?

In other news, "talented musicians don't find GCSE music a struggle", "people who have a natural gift for languages and are already bi-lingual in X and Y don't find learning language Z difficult" and "good footballers usually aren't bad at golf".

He's got a lesson he can relax in. He'll be glad of that in year 11.

I agree that acceleration is not helpful but why should someone sit in their best class not learning anything for years at a time? What a waste of talent and interest.

There is so much more to maths beyond the very restricted gcse and a level curriculuum.

The easiest and least effort way for a school to stretch an able mathematician is to get them signed up to one of the UKMT mentoring programs as noble and others have said. The intermediate program usually does need an internal mentor, but sometimes ukmt will provide an external one. The senior program uses an external mentor but it is harder to get into that program.

You do need to intervene, teachers are so exceptionally pushed for time nowadays that if you have a very quiet very able student who doesn't make a fuss they may well fly under their radar and that's not fair for the student.

I'll pm you var :)

It's such a common thing that you probably should at least mention it at parents' evening - they may have a strategy with extension work he could quietly get on with but just not noticed he's bored because he's not making a fuss.

I told the teacher in February, and I told the form tutor just after Easter.

Actually, I told the form teacher that he was finding several subjects very easy / very slow moving and lacking in depth (which is what he'd been telling me - whilst in tears because he felt so unstimulated both at home and school. )

The form tutor took it seriously and asked DS about it. He confirmed the maths to her, but denied not being challenged in the other subjects (so a tad annoying as he made me look like an interfering idiot!). Anyway, the form tutor she said she'd speak to the maths teacher.

Therefore, the schools knows, and if they've done something about it, its so little that it makes no discernible difference to DS's experience. But what can the school do in practice? Either he sits with the rest of the class or he doesn't. If he sits with them, then he can't do different work and they need to learn the level 7 or 8 stuff, which DS has already mastered.

The only hope is that next year the sets will have a narrower range of abilities (its top third by attainment but there is scope to make it top sixth). If that happens then maybe things will ease up a little. Otherwise, wait for A Level to come around in 3 years time??

You'd have thought teachers would have resources such as problem solving type questions that a kid could get on with independently.