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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

What are the consequences for not doing year 6 sats?

33 replies

Jinglebellsarenearlyhere · 27/04/2015 08:27

hi. A friend is thinking of withdrawing their child from sitting the year 6 sats as the pressure is making her DD ill. She is happily a level 5 in everything but being pushed for level 6.

What knock on effect will this have for her DD at secondary school - she is going to a lewisham comp not an academy.

OP posts:

starfish4 · 27/04/2015 10:05

If the comp uses SATS levels to set immediately, then her DD could be put in the wrong set (and be taught at the wrong level until they've have time to assess and test her - my DD's comp used the levels for maths and science immediately, and one or two were moved at the end of the October. Luckily my DD didn't have to move which was good following so much adjustment. Also, I think their levels give the school an idea of what they are capable of long term.

SunnyBaudelaire · 27/04/2015 10:07

I have heard that many schools ignore the SATs and do their own testing in the first couple of weeks of secondary. I think my children's secondary did this.

MN164 · 27/04/2015 10:18

Don't Lewisham do banding tests to balance intake anyway? Maybe the school ignore that and retest on entry. I'd call the school and ask.

I think you are right to withdraw from the SATs - it's very sad for a young person to be suffering stress and pressure to "be bright". What if they don't get level 6? I hope that isn't considered failure. Level 5 is really good and they should already feel proud.

Original poster

Jinglebellsarenearlyhere · 27/04/2015 10:25

Thanks all. Yes lewisham does use banding - I hadnot thought of that. The whole situtation is horrid as the girl is brighter than level 6 but goes to pieces in 'test' situations. So instead of supporting her with this they pile the pressure on for results. Madness but I think this is the last year of SATS - too late for her DD though.

I think calling the school is a good idea.

Does anyone know if there are legal ramifications of withdrawing a child from SATS?

OP posts:

SunnyBaudelaire · 27/04/2015 10:27

no there are no 'legal ramifications' SATS are about the school not the child.

poisonedbypen · 27/04/2015 10:27

No there aren't

balletgirlmum · 27/04/2015 10:28

Dd went to a private junior school so didn't do SATS.

The secindary school she's at now tried to case her old school for reports/levels etc - old school didn't use levels new school does- but they did cats anyway & it hasn't affected her.

Her friend who got an average level 4 for maths was very quickly moved into the extension group as she is a high flyer (win the yr 7-9 maths prize in test 7) do something must have gone astray with her maths result

Mel2Mel · 27/04/2015 10:32

My dc2 was already at level6 and had no problem but the teachers were so stressed and out of order in the classroom with the pupils to the point I decided to pull my dc2 out of school for the whole summer! He was doing some work to prepare him for his Secondary School and had a great summer :) He started his year 7 refreshed and relaxed.

vindscreenviper · 27/04/2015 10:38

a parent can't withdraw their child from the test. if the child I'd in school on the day of the tests then head is legally obliged to make them do the test. they have no discretion in as the government doesn't trust them not to withdraw any children who may lower their stats. your friend will have to keep their child at home if they want to avoid the tests.

vindscreenviper · 27/04/2015 10:40

many phone typos sorry

SingingHinnies · 27/04/2015 10:48

I had this with DC1 2 year ago, she was predicted to get 5's possibly a 6 in English and they pushed her too hard, groups after school, workbooks every night at home, was just constant pressure, she is really good at English but struggles with Math's. Anyway it was just to too much and she ended up not understanding the maths as it wasn't explained properly, just make sure you do these books and have them in next day. She ended up getting a 3 in Maths and just scraped a 5 in English. She is now in Yr8 and working back to the level she should be

DC2 is in yr 6, same school with a different teacher with a totally different style, praise based teaching, she has a mild learning difficulty but got outside help from the school in yr4. She is now predicted and on target to get 5's which no one thought was possible, she was expected to get 3's/4s. She has had no workbooks, no clubs and no pressure.

The difference is amazing, she is not stressed, she's enjoying learning and loves all the praise and encouragement she gets, DC1's teacher was very strict, if you didn't complete the tasks she set you stayed in at break time or lunch time, it was just relentless, Dc1s whole attitude changed in yr6 from trying hard to playing up, she was sick, i hate school etc, i think it really effected her result's, if she had dc2's teacher she would have done a lot better

Flugdrachen · 27/04/2015 10:51

dd didn't do SATs (or have any reports etc) as she was home educated. No ramifications at all - the school put her in the middle set for maths but she was moved to the top set within 2 weeks. They did their own CAT tests for monitoring progress/underachievement.

Her predicted grades/targets have been based on her teacher's assessments & progress (she's y9 now).

clam · 27/04/2015 10:54

If you were to keep your child off school for the official week of the SATs, then I expect the school would still give them to her to do on her return. The papers wouldn't be officially/externlly marked, but a level would be ascertained.

morethanpotatoprints · 27/04/2015 10:59

My dd would be y6, but also H.ed no no SATS.
There are no ramifications for dc not taking SATS, what does it matter what is written down by a teacher in terms of assessment/ targets/ levels etc as long as the child has a good attitude and tries their best. They could exceed the target given by the school as they may improve a huge deal more than is predicted.

I do know its illegal for a head not to issue the test to a child unless they are not expected to reach a certain level, is it 3?
If they miss the day of the test they have something like a 2 week window for the school to administer the test. So to enable you to be exempt from the test you either keep them of for 2 weeks or deregister and H.ed

NWgirls · 27/04/2015 11:21

As the school is selecting which students will take level 6 exams, my suggestion is for the parents to push the school to "de-select" her for level 6 (which probably drives a lot of the stress) but to agree that she will sit the "normal" level 3-5 exams that all kids take - and for the school to stop stressing her out! Sats are primarily for the benefit of the school, but it is quite drastic to go on "exam strike" if you have a near-banker level 5 child.

DarlingDaffodil · 27/04/2015 11:32

I agree with NWgirls. Just ask her to be withdrawn from level 6 SATs and do the normal 3-5 SATs- problem solved???

SG29 · 27/04/2015 12:01

My daughter did take the SAT, but we moved areas and the high school in the new area, as it turned out, didn't bother to get any of the test results from the kids who moved in. They just put them automatically into the bottom set for maths and science, the two subjects they streamed. (fyi She got maximum score for maths, near maximum in science .)

My daughter's primary school was way ahead in maths, so despite being only taught simple stuff she had learned years before during year 7, she was consistently getting test results the same as the top end of the top stream. They did grudgingly offer her the chance to move (in an offputting way designed to discourage her luckily she took up the offer anyways). However she seemed to be the only child in year seven who changed streams.

In science, we were more dependent on what the high school was actually teaching. The kids in the bottom set receive the same tests, but are taught a lot less material so are fundamentally disadvantaged; the idea that "they can easily move up" is not something I recognise. During the year her test scores were well above the rest of her class, but below the middle class because of specific topics not covered by her class. She finished year seven at the same level as year six (5a), making the year look like a waste of time. This year (year 8) she was moved up to the middle class, and then was achieving test scores equal to the top scores in the top class. It still took most of the year till she was moved up to the top class. Meanwhile, her interest in science has really taken a tumble.

Of course, it depends very much on the specific high school, but I would say there is definitely a risk if they are not taken (and, obviously a risk if they are taken and ignored!), And I would be sceptical about schools' claims that they take great care in allocating people to the right streams our high school made plenty of claims about that!

And being put in inappropriately easy classes is not great for the kids. My daughter was bored stiff in the lower classes, but really interested once working at a suitable level and pace.

Original poster

Jinglebellsarenearlyhere · 27/04/2015 13:02

All great advice and sympathy. I know she is withdrawn from the extra classes for level 6's but not sure about the actuall papers but that would be a great idea. I didnot know they were sat as a seperate entity. My DD is at the other end of the ability spectrum so all my expertise is about demanding support to aid learning.

OP posts:

tiggytape · 27/04/2015 13:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bimandbam · 27/04/2015 13:19

I have had the exact same issue with Dd.

After tears all weekend for the third weekend in a row I spoke to the head teacher and told her I would be withdrawing her from level 6 unless the school supported her more.

She is much happier about them now.

I did think a parent could withdraw the child from SATS though. Is that definitely not the case?

notinminutenow · 27/04/2015 13:49

Madness but I think this is the last year of SATS - too late for her DD though.

This is not the last year of SATs. They are changing from next year (removal of mental maths paper, more problem solving questions etc) but they are not going anywhere.

Schools use baseline KS2 Sats levels (together with CAT's and other data) to come up with target GCSE grades. Secondary schools must demonstrate a certain amount of progress per pupil between KS2 and KS4. Schools may also use them to set or stream - although our school uses a fair banding test (run in conjunction with 8 other schools) and uses the results of the banding test to stream, confirmed by CAT's early in y7.

As others have said, your friends should request de-selection from level 6 papers if that is the cause of the daughter's stress. 11 year olds should not be getting ill because of a test!

MN164 · 27/04/2015 14:21

It is worth remembering that the SATs are for the schools benefit. They show that they have made sufficient or good progress since year 2.

If they school has been good for your child it would seem drastic to penalise them by total withdrawal.

Maybe dropping out of level 6 or saying to your child to sit them but spoil the papers. However, sit the 3-5 normally and do their best.

tiggytape · 27/04/2015 14:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

clam · 27/04/2015 16:21

"SATs are for the schools benefit"

They really aren't. They're for the Government to use as a stick to beat schools with. Schools would be thrilled to see the back of them.

MN164 · 27/04/2015 16:26

Clam

Good point well made. Thanks for putting that right as I'm sure many teachers would like to be rid of them. Soz to them if they're reading.

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