11+ - please help us start preparing!

[Nena7]

I need some help in helping my son preparing for 11+ (I know some of you may say it's late in the day, but here we are...) He is a bright boy and has seen a tutor for the past six months. I would now like to help him a bit at home as well, mainly in exam technique and what he can expect on the day.

Can anyone suggest web pages, online forums, booklets etc where we could find good resources? Also, what did you start with, how did you do it? Thanks for your help!

Ok, I'm going to say that I think this is about your need to be involved in the process, not your DS's.

You say you have a tutor and your DS is bright: you need to take a deep breath and trust your ds's brightness and your tutor's ability to tutor.

I've not done grammar 11+ but I have done the London day schools entrance exams twice in quick succession. I know one of the the things my DCs teachers used to pull their hair out about was the confusion of methods having a lot of people teaching a dc. You could ask the tutor if there is anything needed to support what s/he is doing, but I probably wouldn't.

I think good overall strategy is to ensure they are exposed to current events (life skill), ensure times tables are rock-solid (often overlooked building bock but the faster they can be the better) and ensure there are lots of other interests arond to keep everyone sane.

I'll start with a warning - some tutors are great. Some... not so much. Does your tutor seem to understand the 11+ in your area? Does he know whether you should be using Bond or Nfer? No matter how good the tutor seems to be, I'd check this kind of stuff out. The Eleven Plus Forum is good for this- this will tell you the information for your are (although most of the people who post on it seem a bit obsessive!).

If your ds will be sitting the 11+ for a particular school, it's worth contacting the school to find out if there are any practice papers available. If it's an area/county test, look on your Local Authority's website to find out as much information as possible.

Surely it's an either/or approach otherwise you seriously run the risk of putting your DS off studying so hard (at such a young age)! We did six months of prep at home with our DC1 and that was quite long enough - any longer and he would have rebelled.

Fine to use a tutor (providing it's a good one!) but don't push your DS too hard otherwise you may find it counterproductive!

If he's in Year 5 currently (but he's had a tutor for six months already) then I would imagine he should be on target if he's bright enough, although you don't say whether he's going for 11+ in a super-selective or not?

Good luck!

Check Godolphin and Latymer, SPGS, KCS websites. They all have sample papers. Six months of tutoring is a pretty long time, I think!

Look objectively at DC ability then it becomes a numbers game.Research your target schools on how many apply,their various catchment rules and general academic levels.Have a plan B.Once you have done this then embark on your journey.There will be twists and turns.Read,read and read.

I second looking on the 11+ forum. Working out a timetable with him so he can see there is time to relax as well will help. Try also doing some of the practice tests along side him so you appreciate more what is involved and it will also make it more fun for him to compare scores. Lastly, make sure he has covered enough or the maths curriculum, as he could be tested on any of the year 6 content. There is no guarantee for any child to get in, but the more he does, the greater his probability of passing.

Tables tables tables. Print off mixed tables tests with 60 on a sheet and time him. Give him 3 minutes to complete the sheet and if he can do that then reduce the time you give him to do it. Once you have done that find some that are mixed multiplication and division and repeat exercise. It's deathly boring but it's 5 minutes a day and this was 100% what has made the biggest difference to my eldest being able to move on in maths, it's the basis for virtually everything. If they have that off the top of their heads then they find it much easier to pick up so many other topics. Other than that make sure he's reading decent literature 20 mins a night and leave the rest to the tutor.

^Yes. I do about 5-7 min of "what's 1000/20" and "whats 80*60" etc with my son about 5x a week and get the timer out, jump up and down when his time improves, etc. He gets a kick out of it and has grown more nimble.

A lot of 11+ rests on not making silly mistakes, so rote mathematics is key.

Hi op. Where are you, in a grammar county? Are you looking for a top score or "just" a pass?

We are in Kent and DS took the test last Sept. We had a tutor for 45 mins for the whole of Y5. From Easter onwards, he upped the "homework", giving DS more and more practice papers to do. He saved the GL assessment papers until then, as there aren't that many of them and they are the closest to the test itself.

What they weren't close on were timing, in Maths. We spent most of the summer trying to get DS to slow down as he was going what we thought was way too fast, and making silly errors. The practice papers for Maths are 50 questions in 60 minutes, increasing in difficulty. The actual test had all multi step (so long) questions - and 30 in 25 minutes. So no one finished it. They had to lower the pass mark as there weren't enough that passed! Conversely, the English paper was too easy so there was no age standardisation possible at the top end. It was the first year that spatial reasoning was introduced so nets practice was needed. The tutor paid for himself with this as I am hopeless at it.

My advice would be speed, speed, speed with accuracy. That comes from practice. Go to www.elevenplusexams.co.uk forum for papers etc if your tutor can't provide them.

Happy to provide any more specific info on the Kent test if it's relevant to you.

Bright child plus 2 months with a tutor on exam technique is enough to get into any school in the land. Depends what you mean by "bright".

"2 months with a tutor enough to get into any school in the land"

ROFL. Fine if you are privately educated, or have been doing any other 11plus prep. And indeed, depends what you mean by bright. Working at Level 5/6? Some children are very "bright" but not that speedy, or have weaker areas - eg may be exceptional at Maths and hopeless at spelling, creative writing etc etc. And what is 2 months with a tutor? Once a week for 45 minutes or an intensive 4 hour a week programme?

And tbh why risk it? It's a one shot event, certainly in our county.

10 hours and that's for state primary. No need at all for a tutor if you're already at a prep - that why it's called prep.

Sure, you can tutor for 6 months, 1 year or more. Go for it. Poor kid. Waste of money and playtime. Maybe you want to go to that selective school more than they do?

Tutoring wasn't a "waste of money and playtime" for us. DS happened to adore his tutor and really enjoyed the sessions. He got a lot out of them too - he's in a state primary where there are 31 children in his class, a third of whom have serious behavioural issues. The tutor could spend time going through any areas DS had a few more questions on than he might be able to get answered in class.

He has/had acres of playtime, loads of times for extra curricular sports etc.

Just because someone had a tutor for longer than your kid, doesn't mean they are tiger parents or "you want to go to the selective school more than they do". It really is very naive to assume everyone's situation is similar to your own, or wrong.

MN164 can you also guarantee Tiffin in 10 hours. Most applicants will have had much more than that. We know two very bright kids who did not do massive amounts of tutoring. They only just scraped in yet were soon performing at the top of the year group. If you really need that place it's a pretty risky strategy. It's not unusual for a child to be offered a place at a supposedly super - selective private school like SPA or Westminster yet not get Tiffin.

I think that's the key - do you really need the place? What are the alternatives like for your DS if he doesn't pass? Are you in a grammar county where there are no comprehensives, can you not afford to pay for independent schooling etc? Or is there a perfectly acceptable alternative, one that would suit your child?

I suppose we weren't prepared to take the chance, and neither was DS.

"he's in a state primary where there are 31 children in his class, a third of whom have serious behavioural issues." Ditto ... and?

Sorry, I know I'm being very harsh on this point, but there is a general and, in my opinion, unhealthy reliance on tutoring for long periods of time. I often feel like a lone voice against it. Our strategy was to have 3 or 4 schools which we liked with a wide range of academic ability. The national curriculum was all that was needed and that was covered at school. The only missing element was exam technique and some verbal reasoning. Ten hours was enough for that.

The key point being, we wanted our child, via the system, to settle to the academic level that suited them - not to push them above that level with a tutor.

Not getting into the super selective was not failure. When you talk of guarantees, you implicitly regard not getting in as a failure. That's unhealthy, in my opinion.

No unhealthy attitude here. Our situation, to be clear, as follows : ( will need to NC, again, after this! )

DS has been at top of class since Reception. We live in a grammar county. The options for secondary are as follows:

• local grammar - need to pass Kent test
• super selectives - need top score in Kent test/other test
• academy - (not comprehensive as top 25% ability band supposedly go to grammar ).
• church school - we are atheists and outside non faith catchment
• independent - min £20k per year. We can't pay this, and neither are we eligible for a bursary, DS was offered a sports scholarship but that's only 10%

We looked at the academy and the local grammar before the test. The academy is wholly unsuitable for DS on many levels, but I suspect our DD will go there as it ticks many boxes for her. We really liked the local grammar and thought it a good fit.

Nearly every single child in DSs class that took the Kent test had a tutor, many for the whole of Y5, and some also for the whole of Y4. The ones that had tutors in Y4 was to plug gaps, and most of these didn't pass the test. I can't stress enough it is the norm round here to have a tutor once a week for Y5.

It would have been difficult yes, if DS hadn't passed, as there is no school within catchment that would be suitable for him. Remember, we are in a grammar county and there are no comprehensives. Its very easy to say oooh don't pressurise the child, it's not a problem if they don't pass etc when you don't live in a grammar county. Or if you have a child that is borderline or working at average levels, and would be more suited to a non grammar education ( like my DD ). Or indeed if you can pay your way out. Or if you can move. etc etc.

So, we just wanted him to do his best. He's more than capable, but we didn't want to take any chances with such a one try setup.

In the event, he rose wonderfully to the challange, enjoyed the work and got into a SS, which I think will be perfect for him. We never visited it before he did the test as we didn't want to put pressure on him to get a top score. But if he had only had 10 sessions with a tutor I'm not sure he would have done so well, as he would be more panicked ( he's quite a stressy sort ) about what he was doing. On the day, he'd had lots and lots of practice so that it was all second nature and the stress was therefore minimised.

I think this explains why we did what we did. And again, I stress it is very much the norm round here. I think maybe you have a very different set up to us - comprehensives and super selectives? Which is a very, very different thing.

Your approach is just as many others do and your situation is very similar to many others too. Where there are selective schools the local comps don't seem to be as attractive. There is nothing special about that.

My lament is that this approach is considered "normal". It might be what every one does, but that's just a rush to the lowest common demoninator.

As you said, some kids have been tutored since year 4 and didn't get in. That is exactly my point. What a waste of time and money and stress.

Well done to your child for getting in. You will never know how little help they actually needed.

Local comes don't exist in grammar areas. [sigh]

comps

I will also never know if we hadn't tutored and my child didn't pass if he had missed a massive one chance opportunity because of my actions.

Not worth the risk.

I also take issue with "don't seem to be attractive". Do you know anything about non selective schools in grammar counties? I suspect not.

Long and short of it :I don't think you are in a position to criticise other peoples parenting choices when you do not live in a grammar county, and have no experience of the schooling options in one.

Your comments are invalid as you are not speaking from a position of knowledge or experience.

Hmm .. "wholly unsuitable for DS on many levels" (your words) is a bit like "don't seem to be as attractive" (my words). Also, I'm not saying comps are bad, I'm saying that to many, where selective option are available, they "seem" less attractive. After all, the academy you mentioned does "seem as attractive" for your son - in your own words. Where's the beef?

My point was that your situation is not so unique or special. I would imagine that there are very few places where the local comps' catchments are untouched by some form of selective schools (faith schools, single sex schools, academies with selective policies, grammar schools, independent schools, etc). Actually, with no data to hand, I bet your situation is very not unique at all.

BTW - you seem to know a lot about my circumstances. How's that? I've not mentioned them at all on this thread. Perhaps you've been googling me?